multiple remote actions
Re: multiple remote actions
yup, right then left works fine. that's probably right. so we just need to figure out what all the para1's for hidden is.
Re: multiple remote actions
Damn..reading this makes me wish I still did this stuff ;)
Re: multiple remote actions
Hot damn..it's amazing but this really seems to make sense. What would help though is a sort of "definition" list, instead of everything typed out like this...(granted, better off waiting til you two have everything figured out).
So para1 = ? (room # i think?)
para2 = exit (0-9, what order? N, E, S, W, NE, SE, SW, NW, U, D?)
Adding 10 to it is for more than one remote action required..so say para2 is 11, then in another room its 21, then another its 31..you'd do 11, 21, 31...(for an east exit if my number is correct..)
So if you wanted it to be in no particular order, you'd just put the exit integer number as a negative number, hence why we dont see any negative integers lower than -9..
Am I following?
Then para3 is the message you see as the exit opens up
And para4 is what? Do para3 and para4 work together? As in..if we wanted it custom, would we only fill in para4, or would we need something in for para 3?
(if possible, give an example message)
Please tell me I'm following..or that I'm at least on the right track..cuz if not, I'm fawkin lost..
So para1 = ? (room # i think?)
para2 = exit (0-9, what order? N, E, S, W, NE, SE, SW, NW, U, D?)
Adding 10 to it is for more than one remote action required..so say para2 is 11, then in another room its 21, then another its 31..you'd do 11, 21, 31...(for an east exit if my number is correct..)
So if you wanted it to be in no particular order, you'd just put the exit integer number as a negative number, hence why we dont see any negative integers lower than -9..
Am I following?
Then para3 is the message you see as the exit opens up
And para4 is what? Do para3 and para4 work together? As in..if we wanted it custom, would we only fill in para4, or would we need something in for para 3?
(if possible, give an example message)
Please tell me I'm following..or that I'm at least on the right track..cuz if not, I'm fawkin lost..
Re: multiple remote actions
Oh..and...how does the target room with the remote command exit know how many triggers will open it? Which exit type would it be, and what para's do what? Remote I'm guessing..
Re: multiple remote actions
Originally posted by Platinum
Oh..and...how does the target room with the remote command exit know how many triggers will open it? Which exit type would it be, and what para's do what? Remote I'm guessing..
remote command exits activate hidden exits, not other remote command exits. that's probably where you're getting confused. because this also answers the other portion of your question.
para2 for the hidden exit type is how many remote actions need to be performed against it before it will open. it could be less than -9 or more than +9 becuase even though there are only 10 exits on a room, remote actions can activate hidden exits on any room, not just the one you're standing in (like the levers in the crypt)
this may have been more confusing :)
Oh..and...how does the target room with the remote command exit know how many triggers will open it? Which exit type would it be, and what para's do what? Remote I'm guessing..
remote command exits activate hidden exits, not other remote command exits. that's probably where you're getting confused. because this also answers the other portion of your question.
para2 for the hidden exit type is how many remote actions need to be performed against it before it will open. it could be less than -9 or more than +9 becuase even though there are only 10 exits on a room, remote actions can activate hidden exits on any room, not just the one you're standing in (like the levers in the crypt)
this may have been more confusing :)
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Locke Cole
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:00 am
Re: multiple remote actions
Originally posted by syntax53
yup, right then left works fine. that's probably right. so we just need to figure out what all the para1's for hidden is.
Okay, well, let's look at some rooms and try to figure this stuff out. =)
Map 3 Room 639 is the room you walk through to get to the room where you "push painting" to open the way to the regular beholder in Ancient Ruins. Map 3 Room 640 is the "push painting" room. Both of those rooms have hidden exits that you just walk through without needing to perform any action to open the exits. Both of these have Para1 set to "1" (binary 00000001). All the other parameters are 0 except for Para3 which is set to a message that I think MMUD isn't using (I've never seen these messages displayed, at least I don't think I have). In the cast of 639/3, the message is set to 1117 which is this--
You pass through an illusionary wall!
%s walks through the wall to the east!
%s arrives through the wall to the east!
Now if we go back to the Elder Darkwood Grove entrance, 20/7, you'll see that Para3 is set to 1259, which is this--
A groaning crack in the darkwood tree yawns open!
A groaning crack in the darkwood tree yawns open!
A groaning crack in the darkwood tree yawns open!
In the case of 20/7, Para1 is set to "48". The difference seems to be that in the case of a walk-thru hidden exit vs. a remote action hidden exit (one which requires 1 to x actions to open). In the latter case, Para3 points to a message displayed when the exit is finally opened. In the former case, Para3 points to a message to display when you walk through the exit (now, here's the thing though, this doesn't seem to be working right now). There's two possibilities for how this is done-- Para2 is set to "0" in the walk-through exit in both cases, while in the Grove case, Para2 is set to "2". It's possible "0" is special cased as being a walk-thru exit, or that Or, the value of Para1 is affecting how the hidden exit is handled. 20/7 has a Para1 of "48" (binary 00110000), while 640/3 and 639/3 have a Para1 of "1" (binary 00000001). The only difference, bitwise, between "48" and "1" of significance is that "1" sets the first bit to 1, while 48 leaves the first bit cleared at 0. If it is a bitmask, this might be the method of defining a walk-through exit vs. an exit that requires actions. Emphasis on MIGHT however, because it seems just as likely that having Para2 set to "0" would have this effect as well.
Map 3 Room 638 is the room outside the beholder with the hidden exit which must be opened. Para1 for this exit is set to "16" (binary 00010000). Para2 is -1, which is identical to how the hidden exits on the Grand Stair are setup and fits well with the 1 remote action in any order idea we discussed above.
Map 3 Room 641 is the beholder room. IIRC you don't have to search west to exit this room, but I'm not 100% certain. Para1 for this exit is set to "1" (binary 00000001), just as the walk-thru hidden exit above is setup. Para2 is "0", Para3 is "0", and Para4 appears to be set to a message to show for the exit if it's searched out. It's set to 1266, which is--
obsidian passage %s
obsidian passage %s
obsidian passage %s
Now, like I said, I don't recall needing to search out the exit to get out of this room, but I could be wrong. If so, this is lending more credibility to the idea that either bit 1 controls whether you need to search or perform an action, or having Para2 set to "0" determines whether an exit can be walked through without anything having been done previously.
Map 3 Room 650 is the wraithlords room where you have to perform a command (remote action) before the hidden exit south will open. Para1 is "16" (binary 00010000). Para2 is -1, and Para3 and Para4 are setup with messages for when the exit opens and what to show for the exit (respectively).
Map 3 Room 651 is the room south of the wraithlord. The exit north is a hidden exit that needs to be searched out before it can be passed through. Para1 is "2" (binary 00000010), and all the other parameters are 0 except for Para4 which appears to contain the exit text to show (rather than the convention "north").
Map 3 Room 661 is the gate to Goru-Nezar, and it's one of the weirder ones. Para1 is set to "2032" (binary 0000011111110000). It seems to be using 16 bits where as most other exits used only the lower 8 bits. Para2 is set to "7", and Para3 and Para4 are set to the messages for display when the gate opens and what to show for the exit.
Map 3 Room 479 is the Warded Arch in the Silverwood Forest. It has a hidden exit southeast, all 0's except for Para1 which is set to "2" (binary 00000010). I do not recall if you need to search to get out or not, but I could have swore you just walked right out.
Map 3 Room 468 is the room southeast of the Warded Arch, now in this case I'm certain you just walk northwest to get back to the Arch. In this case the hidden exit has a Para1 of "1" (binary 00000001).
Map 3 Room 317 is the Dark Cave, Lair, the entrance for evil people to get into the Silverwood Forest area (the wood-elves). The hidden exit has a Para1 of "2" (binary 00000010), with everything else set to 0's. The room below has a hidden exit back up, same parameters.
Map 9 Room 1413 is in the Ancient Darkwood Tree where you go to see Morukai. The hidden exit has a Para1 of "2" (binary 00000010).
Map 9 Room 1343 is the exit back south from the previous room, it's the one you need to open using remote actions. It's hidden exit has a Para1 of "16" (binary 00010000), Para2 is -1, and Para3/Para4 are setup with messages.
Map 9 Room 1411 is the exit into the room that has the remote actions for the previous exit. It's a walk through exit, no searching required. It's hidden exit has a Para1 of "1" (binary 00000001), Para2 is 0, and Para3/4 are set to 66 (blank messages). The Small Statue room south has an identical hidden exit back north.
Map 1 Room 925 is in the sewer on the way to the orc warleader. This is a remote action hidden exit ("push stud"). The hidden exit has a Para1 of "16" (binary 00010000), -1 for Para2, and messages setup in Para3/Para4. The room west has a hidden exit back east, and the Para1 for this room (1010/1) is "2" (binary 00000010).
Map 1 Room 882 and Map 1 Room 883 are also in the sewers, their hidden exits require a search, and in both cases their Para1 is "2" (binary 00000010). All other parameters are 0.
Map 7 Room 1137 is the Dirt Road on the way to the Black Fort. The exits north and south go into the fields. All parameters for the hidden exits are 0 except for Para1, which is "1" (binary 00000001).
Last one--
Map 9 Room 972 is the Great Hall in the Shadowfist Temple, the hidden exit is the one you need to go perform the four remote actions on to open. It has a Para1 of "240" (binary 11110000), Para2 of "4", and messages in Para3 and Para4. The room south which you need to search back north to get out of has a Para1 of "2" (binary 00000010), Para2 of 0, and messages in Para3 and Para4.
So, like, given all this info, we've figured out exactly nothing. Without testing either a 0 in Para2 or different bits in Para1, we can't determine if it's the 0 in Para2 or the bits in Para1 that determine if a hidden exit is walk through or not.
Hopefully having a bunch of rooms and some info will be useful though going forward as a reference to look back on.
yup, right then left works fine. that's probably right. so we just need to figure out what all the para1's for hidden is.
Okay, well, let's look at some rooms and try to figure this stuff out. =)
Map 3 Room 639 is the room you walk through to get to the room where you "push painting" to open the way to the regular beholder in Ancient Ruins. Map 3 Room 640 is the "push painting" room. Both of those rooms have hidden exits that you just walk through without needing to perform any action to open the exits. Both of these have Para1 set to "1" (binary 00000001). All the other parameters are 0 except for Para3 which is set to a message that I think MMUD isn't using (I've never seen these messages displayed, at least I don't think I have). In the cast of 639/3, the message is set to 1117 which is this--
You pass through an illusionary wall!
%s walks through the wall to the east!
%s arrives through the wall to the east!
Now if we go back to the Elder Darkwood Grove entrance, 20/7, you'll see that Para3 is set to 1259, which is this--
A groaning crack in the darkwood tree yawns open!
A groaning crack in the darkwood tree yawns open!
A groaning crack in the darkwood tree yawns open!
In the case of 20/7, Para1 is set to "48". The difference seems to be that in the case of a walk-thru hidden exit vs. a remote action hidden exit (one which requires 1 to x actions to open). In the latter case, Para3 points to a message displayed when the exit is finally opened. In the former case, Para3 points to a message to display when you walk through the exit (now, here's the thing though, this doesn't seem to be working right now). There's two possibilities for how this is done-- Para2 is set to "0" in the walk-through exit in both cases, while in the Grove case, Para2 is set to "2". It's possible "0" is special cased as being a walk-thru exit, or that Or, the value of Para1 is affecting how the hidden exit is handled. 20/7 has a Para1 of "48" (binary 00110000), while 640/3 and 639/3 have a Para1 of "1" (binary 00000001). The only difference, bitwise, between "48" and "1" of significance is that "1" sets the first bit to 1, while 48 leaves the first bit cleared at 0. If it is a bitmask, this might be the method of defining a walk-through exit vs. an exit that requires actions. Emphasis on MIGHT however, because it seems just as likely that having Para2 set to "0" would have this effect as well.
Map 3 Room 638 is the room outside the beholder with the hidden exit which must be opened. Para1 for this exit is set to "16" (binary 00010000). Para2 is -1, which is identical to how the hidden exits on the Grand Stair are setup and fits well with the 1 remote action in any order idea we discussed above.
Map 3 Room 641 is the beholder room. IIRC you don't have to search west to exit this room, but I'm not 100% certain. Para1 for this exit is set to "1" (binary 00000001), just as the walk-thru hidden exit above is setup. Para2 is "0", Para3 is "0", and Para4 appears to be set to a message to show for the exit if it's searched out. It's set to 1266, which is--
obsidian passage %s
obsidian passage %s
obsidian passage %s
Now, like I said, I don't recall needing to search out the exit to get out of this room, but I could be wrong. If so, this is lending more credibility to the idea that either bit 1 controls whether you need to search or perform an action, or having Para2 set to "0" determines whether an exit can be walked through without anything having been done previously.
Map 3 Room 650 is the wraithlords room where you have to perform a command (remote action) before the hidden exit south will open. Para1 is "16" (binary 00010000). Para2 is -1, and Para3 and Para4 are setup with messages for when the exit opens and what to show for the exit (respectively).
Map 3 Room 651 is the room south of the wraithlord. The exit north is a hidden exit that needs to be searched out before it can be passed through. Para1 is "2" (binary 00000010), and all the other parameters are 0 except for Para4 which appears to contain the exit text to show (rather than the convention "north").
Map 3 Room 661 is the gate to Goru-Nezar, and it's one of the weirder ones. Para1 is set to "2032" (binary 0000011111110000). It seems to be using 16 bits where as most other exits used only the lower 8 bits. Para2 is set to "7", and Para3 and Para4 are set to the messages for display when the gate opens and what to show for the exit.
Map 3 Room 479 is the Warded Arch in the Silverwood Forest. It has a hidden exit southeast, all 0's except for Para1 which is set to "2" (binary 00000010). I do not recall if you need to search to get out or not, but I could have swore you just walked right out.
Map 3 Room 468 is the room southeast of the Warded Arch, now in this case I'm certain you just walk northwest to get back to the Arch. In this case the hidden exit has a Para1 of "1" (binary 00000001).
Map 3 Room 317 is the Dark Cave, Lair, the entrance for evil people to get into the Silverwood Forest area (the wood-elves). The hidden exit has a Para1 of "2" (binary 00000010), with everything else set to 0's. The room below has a hidden exit back up, same parameters.
Map 9 Room 1413 is in the Ancient Darkwood Tree where you go to see Morukai. The hidden exit has a Para1 of "2" (binary 00000010).
Map 9 Room 1343 is the exit back south from the previous room, it's the one you need to open using remote actions. It's hidden exit has a Para1 of "16" (binary 00010000), Para2 is -1, and Para3/Para4 are setup with messages.
Map 9 Room 1411 is the exit into the room that has the remote actions for the previous exit. It's a walk through exit, no searching required. It's hidden exit has a Para1 of "1" (binary 00000001), Para2 is 0, and Para3/4 are set to 66 (blank messages). The Small Statue room south has an identical hidden exit back north.
Map 1 Room 925 is in the sewer on the way to the orc warleader. This is a remote action hidden exit ("push stud"). The hidden exit has a Para1 of "16" (binary 00010000), -1 for Para2, and messages setup in Para3/Para4. The room west has a hidden exit back east, and the Para1 for this room (1010/1) is "2" (binary 00000010).
Map 1 Room 882 and Map 1 Room 883 are also in the sewers, their hidden exits require a search, and in both cases their Para1 is "2" (binary 00000010). All other parameters are 0.
Map 7 Room 1137 is the Dirt Road on the way to the Black Fort. The exits north and south go into the fields. All parameters for the hidden exits are 0 except for Para1, which is "1" (binary 00000001).
Last one--
Map 9 Room 972 is the Great Hall in the Shadowfist Temple, the hidden exit is the one you need to go perform the four remote actions on to open. It has a Para1 of "240" (binary 11110000), Para2 of "4", and messages in Para3 and Para4. The room south which you need to search back north to get out of has a Para1 of "2" (binary 00000010), Para2 of 0, and messages in Para3 and Para4.
So, like, given all this info, we've figured out exactly nothing. Without testing either a 0 in Para2 or different bits in Para1, we can't determine if it's the 0 in Para2 or the bits in Para1 that determine if a hidden exit is walk through or not.
Hopefully having a bunch of rooms and some info will be useful though going forward as a reference to look back on.
Re: multiple remote actions
I hate you Locke..I can't read this...god damnit!
I'm lost..
I'm lost..
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Rust In Peace
Re: multiple remote actions
First of all, I must say that it's great what you're doing here. Mad props to you all.
As for the topic at hand, why not play around with Para 2 or Para 1 (separately of course) on the existing rooms that you KNOW the values for. I mean, change Para 2 values from like -16 to +16 and see if that affects anything, and how. Then in the same manner, play with Para1..
I don't have NMR or anything, so I don't know if there's more values around, but such random values for such precise results make me think you guys are maybe looking in the wrong place... Or maybe the trancation isn't by 10 and perhaps some different number?...
As for the topic at hand, why not play around with Para 2 or Para 1 (separately of course) on the existing rooms that you KNOW the values for. I mean, change Para 2 values from like -16 to +16 and see if that affects anything, and how. Then in the same manner, play with Para1..
I don't have NMR or anything, so I don't know if there's more values around, but such random values for such precise results make me think you guys are maybe looking in the wrong place... Or maybe the trancation isn't by 10 and perhaps some different number?...
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Locke Cole
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- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:00 am
Re: multiple remote actions
Originally posted by Rust In Peace
As for the topic at hand, why not play around with Para 2 or Para 1 (separately of course) on the existing rooms that you KNOW the values for. I mean, change Para 2 values from like -16 to +16 and see if that affects anything, and how. Then in the same manner, play with Para1..
Yeah, the only way I think we're going to be able to extend our knowledge any further is to actually edit some rooms and see what values work as we're expecting and which don't, then go over the results here again, come up with some more things to try, repeat, and hopefully figure out enough of it that we'll have something useful for everyone to use.
Not to say that knowing how remote action exits works isn't useful, that part I've had worked out for awhile, and I hope people find it useful, and some of the stuff we've discussed is pretty much concrete (it either works the way we expect, or there's something totally off the wall going on). The only real issue is how Para1 figures into some of this, but even then, with the knowledge presented already, one need only copy the value in Para1 for the type of exit they're creating, then use the rest of the info here to customize what they want. Or, in the case of walk through hidden exits, they can try the two or three different values to determine which one actually does the magic, then go from there. Either way, this should save some time for people who were previously guessing how it was working, because now they have a much more concrete theory to work from.
As for the topic at hand, why not play around with Para 2 or Para 1 (separately of course) on the existing rooms that you KNOW the values for. I mean, change Para 2 values from like -16 to +16 and see if that affects anything, and how. Then in the same manner, play with Para1..
Yeah, the only way I think we're going to be able to extend our knowledge any further is to actually edit some rooms and see what values work as we're expecting and which don't, then go over the results here again, come up with some more things to try, repeat, and hopefully figure out enough of it that we'll have something useful for everyone to use.
Not to say that knowing how remote action exits works isn't useful, that part I've had worked out for awhile, and I hope people find it useful, and some of the stuff we've discussed is pretty much concrete (it either works the way we expect, or there's something totally off the wall going on). The only real issue is how Para1 figures into some of this, but even then, with the knowledge presented already, one need only copy the value in Para1 for the type of exit they're creating, then use the rest of the info here to customize what they want. Or, in the case of walk through hidden exits, they can try the two or three different values to determine which one actually does the magic, then go from there. Either way, this should save some time for people who were previously guessing how it was working, because now they have a much more concrete theory to work from.