someone figure out how the heck multiple remote actions work on hidden exits. more specificly, how to tell how many actions finally trigger a hidden exit to activate. like in the crypt where you pull the two levers they do a remote action on that room up north. the value for the remote action on that north room is 48. i was initially thinking each remote action was worth 24 "points" and it would add however many rounds specified to the amount of time you have left after you do each action. but other values i've seen contradict, like 240, 112, 48, 42, 16.
-syn
multiple remote actions
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Locke Cole
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Re: multiple remote actions
Originally posted by syntax53
i'm gonna take a shot in the dark an say the hidden exit uses a system much like the attributes. where as it's a bitmask and you can turn options on and off. locke, you happen to know where in the code this might be?
It's a lot less complicated than that, but still overly complicated. =) I'll be using the Elder Darkwood Grove entrance as an example. Look at Map 7 Room 20. (This lil post is meant more as a reference, so I'll be explaining stuff you probably already know, syn.)
For the E and W exits, they're setup as Remote Actions. Para1 in NMR is setup as 296 for the east, and 294 for the west. These refer to messages in the messages database. 296 is "push knot", and 294 is "twist knot" or "turn knot". Para2 is setup as 17 for the east and 27 for the west. These refer to the order the commands must be executed in, as well as which exit they affect. There are at most 10 exits per room, numbered 0 through 9. Para2 mod 10 is the exit that is affected (in other words, Para2 divided by 10 with the remainder being the exit affected and the quotient being the command step sequence). Step sequences are ordered starting at 1. So going back, we have 17 for east and 27 for west, 17 / 10 = 1 with 7 as the remainder, and 27 / 10 = 2 with 7 as the remainder. Exit 7 is the SW exit which is setup as Hidden. Para1 for the SW exit may indeed be a bitmask or flag, I'm fairly certain it defines how the exit is processed and shown. Para2 is what is interesting to us for now though-- it's set to 2. This is the number of steps needed to make the exit show. Para3 is the message shown when the exit is triggered, and Para4 is the custom exit message (rather than "southwest", you get "crack in tree southwest" from the "crack in tree %s" the message is set to).
If you want a REALLY fun example of a large number of remote action exits, you only need to look at Map 3 Room 661, the Ancient Ruin, Palace Gates outside Goru-Nezar. Here you can see that what I've described above is correct because the number of remote actions needed has jumped from just 2 to a total of 7, and now it affects the 6th exit rather than the 7th. =)
Oh yeah, for the Remote Action exits themself, the Room # is the room with the Hidden exit to be affected, so in the case of the Crypt, the Room # should point to the room (on the same map) that has the Hidden exit, then you use Para2 to determine which exit is affected in that specified Room #. An example of this would be the Guard Room (Map 7 Room 152) on the Grand Stair on the way to the Fungus Forest.
I'd still be curious what all the possible values for Para1 are on Hidden exits, and I may try and figure that out from poking around in the DLL. =)
i'm gonna take a shot in the dark an say the hidden exit uses a system much like the attributes. where as it's a bitmask and you can turn options on and off. locke, you happen to know where in the code this might be?
It's a lot less complicated than that, but still overly complicated. =) I'll be using the Elder Darkwood Grove entrance as an example. Look at Map 7 Room 20. (This lil post is meant more as a reference, so I'll be explaining stuff you probably already know, syn.)
For the E and W exits, they're setup as Remote Actions. Para1 in NMR is setup as 296 for the east, and 294 for the west. These refer to messages in the messages database. 296 is "push knot", and 294 is "twist knot" or "turn knot". Para2 is setup as 17 for the east and 27 for the west. These refer to the order the commands must be executed in, as well as which exit they affect. There are at most 10 exits per room, numbered 0 through 9. Para2 mod 10 is the exit that is affected (in other words, Para2 divided by 10 with the remainder being the exit affected and the quotient being the command step sequence). Step sequences are ordered starting at 1. So going back, we have 17 for east and 27 for west, 17 / 10 = 1 with 7 as the remainder, and 27 / 10 = 2 with 7 as the remainder. Exit 7 is the SW exit which is setup as Hidden. Para1 for the SW exit may indeed be a bitmask or flag, I'm fairly certain it defines how the exit is processed and shown. Para2 is what is interesting to us for now though-- it's set to 2. This is the number of steps needed to make the exit show. Para3 is the message shown when the exit is triggered, and Para4 is the custom exit message (rather than "southwest", you get "crack in tree southwest" from the "crack in tree %s" the message is set to).
If you want a REALLY fun example of a large number of remote action exits, you only need to look at Map 3 Room 661, the Ancient Ruin, Palace Gates outside Goru-Nezar. Here you can see that what I've described above is correct because the number of remote actions needed has jumped from just 2 to a total of 7, and now it affects the 6th exit rather than the 7th. =)
Oh yeah, for the Remote Action exits themself, the Room # is the room with the Hidden exit to be affected, so in the case of the Crypt, the Room # should point to the room (on the same map) that has the Hidden exit, then you use Para2 to determine which exit is affected in that specified Room #. An example of this would be the Guard Room (Map 7 Room 152) on the Grand Stair on the way to the Fungus Forest.
I'd still be curious what all the possible values for Para1 are on Hidden exits, and I may try and figure that out from poking around in the DLL. =)
Re: multiple remote actions
damn...i think my head just exploded. Locke, you are too smart for your own good =)
Re: multiple remote actions
ahh, ok. so the parameter "rounds" in NMR for para2 of the remote action exit type should really be called "#".
# = the exit number (0 to 9 for North though Down). if there are 2 or more actions needed then add 10 starting with the first action to each remote action's para2.
so a room that needed 3 remote actions on the South (1) exit would have in para2: 11 for the first action, 21 for the second, and 31 for the third.
a room that needed only one action on the South (1) exit would have just a 1 in the para2 field.
-syn
# = the exit number (0 to 9 for North though Down). if there are 2 or more actions needed then add 10 starting with the first action to each remote action's para2.
so a room that needed 3 remote actions on the South (1) exit would have in para2: 11 for the first action, 21 for the second, and 31 for the third.
a room that needed only one action on the South (1) exit would have just a 1 in the para2 field.
-syn
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Locke Cole
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- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:00 am
Re: multiple remote actions
Originally posted by syntax53
a room that needed only one action on the South (1) exit would have just a 1 in the para2 field.
Right on everything, except I just noticed one small issue with the part I quoted above-- look at Map 1 Room 1634. This room has the Remote Action setup on the N exit. Since you only need to perform one command, Para2 is set to 9, meaning it affects the D exit. But if you look at Para2 for the D exit (which is setup as Hidden), you'll see it's -1. So it seems that for single command exits, Para2 can probably be either -1 or (maybe) 1 and still work. The other single-command hidden exit two west from this room works the same way. Everything else still follows the rules I set out above in the mini-guide, it just seems they can use -1 since doing the command at all seems to trigger the exit (it is, after all, only one step). This probably needs to be tested with different values, -1, 0 and 1, to see what each does for a single command hidden exit/remote action.
a room that needed only one action on the South (1) exit would have just a 1 in the para2 field.
Right on everything, except I just noticed one small issue with the part I quoted above-- look at Map 1 Room 1634. This room has the Remote Action setup on the N exit. Since you only need to perform one command, Para2 is set to 9, meaning it affects the D exit. But if you look at Para2 for the D exit (which is setup as Hidden), you'll see it's -1. So it seems that for single command exits, Para2 can probably be either -1 or (maybe) 1 and still work. The other single-command hidden exit two west from this room works the same way. Everything else still follows the rules I set out above in the mini-guide, it just seems they can use -1 since doing the command at all seems to trigger the exit (it is, after all, only one step). This probably needs to be tested with different values, -1, 0 and 1, to see what each does for a single command hidden exit/remote action.
Re: multiple remote actions
Originally posted by Locke Cole
But if you look at Para2 for the D exit (which is setup as Hidden), you'll see it's -1.
thats because para2 for hidden is how many round are remaining before the exit closes. -1 means it's currently closed.
But if you look at Para2 for the D exit (which is setup as Hidden), you'll see it's -1.
thats because para2 for hidden is how many round are remaining before the exit closes. -1 means it's currently closed.
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Locke Cole
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- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:00 am
Re: multiple remote actions
Originally posted by syntax53
thats because para2 for hidden is how many round are remaining before the exit closes. -1 means it's currently closed.
This must be where Para1 defines how the other parameters are intepreted. Para2 for the Elder Grove and Palace Gates hidden exits defines how many remote action commands must be completed before the exit opens. For single command hidden exits, it must have a different meaning.
thats because para2 for hidden is how many round are remaining before the exit closes. -1 means it's currently closed.
This must be where Para1 defines how the other parameters are intepreted. Para2 for the Elder Grove and Palace Gates hidden exits defines how many remote action commands must be completed before the exit opens. For single command hidden exits, it must have a different meaning.
Re: multiple remote actions
Originally posted by Locke Cole
This must be where Para1 defines how the other parameters are intepreted. Para2 for the Elder Grove and Palace Gates hidden exits defines how many remote action commands must be completed before the exit opens. For single command hidden exits, it must have a different meaning.
right right ... hrm. something is definately goin on here cause the 1st level crypt hidden exit to the north has -2 for para2 and that takes 2 actions. so thats kinda a mix between the two things we're talking about.
This must be where Para1 defines how the other parameters are intepreted. Para2 for the Elder Grove and Palace Gates hidden exits defines how many remote action commands must be completed before the exit opens. For single command hidden exits, it must have a different meaning.
right right ... hrm. something is definately goin on here cause the 1st level crypt hidden exit to the north has -2 for para2 and that takes 2 actions. so thats kinda a mix between the two things we're talking about.
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Locke Cole
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- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:00 am
Re: multiple remote actions
Originally posted by syntax53
right right ... hrm. something is definately goin on here cause the 1st level crypt hidden exit to the north has -2 for para2 and that takes 2 actions. so thats kinda a mix between the two things we're talking about.
And in the case of the Crypt hidden exit and the Elder Darkwood Grove hidden exit, both Para1's are set to 48. In the case of the Elder Darkwood Grove though, it's Para2 is set to 2, while as you say the Para2 for the Crypt hidden exit is -2.
There are only two possibilities--
1) MMUD is treating negative numbers as absolute values even if they're negative (in other words, -2 is treated as 2).
2) MMUD is using the fact that the value is negative as some sort of flag, then using the absolute value as mentioned in possibility 1 to perform the actual actions.
It's pathetic and I should know this, but does the order in which you pull the levers in the Crypt matter? It's been eons since I've ever had to spend a long time in there, and I seem to recall you could do them in any order. Yet the remote actions for the pull levers indicate you have to do the left/west lever then the right/east lever in order for the exit to open. Is it possible the negative value is a way of saying to ignore the order? (While still requiring each individual remote action to be performed?)
right right ... hrm. something is definately goin on here cause the 1st level crypt hidden exit to the north has -2 for para2 and that takes 2 actions. so thats kinda a mix between the two things we're talking about.
And in the case of the Crypt hidden exit and the Elder Darkwood Grove hidden exit, both Para1's are set to 48. In the case of the Elder Darkwood Grove though, it's Para2 is set to 2, while as you say the Para2 for the Crypt hidden exit is -2.
There are only two possibilities--
1) MMUD is treating negative numbers as absolute values even if they're negative (in other words, -2 is treated as 2).
2) MMUD is using the fact that the value is negative as some sort of flag, then using the absolute value as mentioned in possibility 1 to perform the actual actions.
It's pathetic and I should know this, but does the order in which you pull the levers in the Crypt matter? It's been eons since I've ever had to spend a long time in there, and I seem to recall you could do them in any order. Yet the remote actions for the pull levers indicate you have to do the left/west lever then the right/east lever in order for the exit to open. Is it possible the negative value is a way of saying to ignore the order? (While still requiring each individual remote action to be performed?)
Re: multiple remote actions
Originally posted by Locke Cole
It's pathetic and I should know this, but does the order in which you pull the levers in the Crypt matter? It's been eons since I've ever had to spend a long time in there, and I seem to recall you could do them in any order. Yet the remote actions for the pull levers indicate you have to do the left/west lever then the right/east lever in order for the exit to open. Is it possible the negative value is a way of saying to ignore the order? (While still requiring each individual remote action to be performed?)
very good assumption, and don't feel bad because i actually dont know the answer either, i've always done it left then right. i'll tell you in 2 minutes though.
It's pathetic and I should know this, but does the order in which you pull the levers in the Crypt matter? It's been eons since I've ever had to spend a long time in there, and I seem to recall you could do them in any order. Yet the remote actions for the pull levers indicate you have to do the left/west lever then the right/east lever in order for the exit to open. Is it possible the negative value is a way of saying to ignore the order? (While still requiring each individual remote action to be performed?)
very good assumption, and don't feel bad because i actually dont know the answer either, i've always done it left then right. i'll tell you in 2 minutes though.