Ok, so I've determined a new method for preventing the stashing of limited items.
I'm going to make a room spell that checks to see if a lim is in the room, if it is, it removes it and gives the user an 'antique' item (or puts an antique item on the room).
So that way, as a sysop, I will not be interfering with the game directly, and textblocks will manage the stashing of items in places they perhaps shouldn't be. These textblocks could be added to ganghouses (A few need maps anyway) and cottages.
But I have to implement and test it, and make sure you all have enough warning.
Cottage owners:
Phalanx, NightMist, Teamo, Cage, Goru.
Not all of these cottages have limited items, but some do. I believe Cage has had sufficient warning, but the others have not.
Also, I would like it if the people who have more than one cottage can either buy a gang house, fit it all in one cottage, or put extra stuff elsewhere. I don't want to make an entire town area of locked doors, 10 cottages should be sufficient =)
--Kher
Stashed Limited items and Cottages.
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DeathCow
Re: Stashed Limited items and Cottages.
Quote from: Serekon on November 14, 2009, 03:56:04 PMOk, so I've determined a new method for preventing the stashing of limited items.
I'm going to make a room spell that checks to see if a lim is in the room, if it is, it removes it and gives the user an 'antique' item (or puts an antique item on the room).
So that way, as a sysop, I will not be interfering with the game directly, and textblocks will manage the stashing of items in places they perhaps shouldn't be. These textblocks could be added to ganghouses (A few need maps anyway) and cottages.
But I have to implement and test it, and make sure you all have enough warning.
Cottage owners:
Phalanx, NightMist, Teamo, Cage, Goru.
Not all of these cottages have limited items, but some do. I believe Cage has had sufficient warning, but the others have not.
Also, I would like it if the people who have more than one cottage can either buy a gang house, fit it all in one cottage, or put extra stuff elsewhere. I don't want to make an entire town area of locked doors, 10 cottages should be sufficient =)
--Kher
I'm not sure this will work exactly how you're thinking it will. How are you planning to do this? I can think of a few ways there are some draw backs however. One method would be to have a bot that fires a spell that teleports him through each gang house/cottage casting a filter spell that would need to have each and EVERY limited item listed in a long series of textblocks with chk take give item commands.
Simply putting the spell in a room would really prevent lim hording on its own, unless there is a method you've thought upat hasnt crossed my mind. Even having the the spells attached as both pre and post movement spell wouldn't prevent a player that wanted too from circumventing the spell by suicideing. (Wow suiciding sucideing/ w/e isnt a word apparently..hehe)
But if you post the concept for your spell I'd be happy to work it out with you so that it would work correctly, or at least attempt to show you where your efforts could be circumvented.
I'm going to make a room spell that checks to see if a lim is in the room, if it is, it removes it and gives the user an 'antique' item (or puts an antique item on the room).
So that way, as a sysop, I will not be interfering with the game directly, and textblocks will manage the stashing of items in places they perhaps shouldn't be. These textblocks could be added to ganghouses (A few need maps anyway) and cottages.
But I have to implement and test it, and make sure you all have enough warning.
Cottage owners:
Phalanx, NightMist, Teamo, Cage, Goru.
Not all of these cottages have limited items, but some do. I believe Cage has had sufficient warning, but the others have not.
Also, I would like it if the people who have more than one cottage can either buy a gang house, fit it all in one cottage, or put extra stuff elsewhere. I don't want to make an entire town area of locked doors, 10 cottages should be sufficient =)
--Kher
I'm not sure this will work exactly how you're thinking it will. How are you planning to do this? I can think of a few ways there are some draw backs however. One method would be to have a bot that fires a spell that teleports him through each gang house/cottage casting a filter spell that would need to have each and EVERY limited item listed in a long series of textblocks with chk take give item commands.
Simply putting the spell in a room would really prevent lim hording on its own, unless there is a method you've thought upat hasnt crossed my mind. Even having the the spells attached as both pre and post movement spell wouldn't prevent a player that wanted too from circumventing the spell by suicideing. (Wow suiciding sucideing/ w/e isnt a word apparently..hehe)
But if you post the concept for your spell I'd be happy to work it out with you so that it would work correctly, or at least attempt to show you where your efforts could be circumvented.
Re: Stashed Limited items and Cottages.
Sure. My idea is this:
Have a list (granted, somewhat long) of checkroomitems for many limited items (probably don't have to do every single one).
If it finds one of the items on the list, it removes it from the room.
Guess an example will help. I feel like I'm divulging some secret method ;-)
Say we want to prevent the hoarding of some of the guardian golem items, platinum ring(210) and platinum bracers(215).
Say, as a "reward" for losing the limited items, they get an antique ring(3005) or antique bracers(3006).
So the room spell will call a text block:
roomitem 210: clearitem 210:giveitem 3005:roomitem 666
roomitem 215: clearitem 215:giveitem 3006:roomitem 666
roomitem 666 is just there to make sure that line does not complete successfully and falls through. So the spell doesn't have to be cast again to check for the next item.
So that's what I have in mind so far. The list would just contain most of the lims that I'm worried about being stashed, with more added as needed. But that means I go from direct intervention to a more auto-mated process. I'm always seeking to overcome problems without intervening. Intervention can always be construed as biased, but something like this, if applied evenly (no secret cottages) will generally be an acceptable and FAIR alternative =)
What do ya think? Thanks for taking an interest =)
Have a list (granted, somewhat long) of checkroomitems for many limited items (probably don't have to do every single one).
If it finds one of the items on the list, it removes it from the room.
Guess an example will help. I feel like I'm divulging some secret method ;-)
Say we want to prevent the hoarding of some of the guardian golem items, platinum ring(210) and platinum bracers(215).
Say, as a "reward" for losing the limited items, they get an antique ring(3005) or antique bracers(3006).
So the room spell will call a text block:
roomitem 210: clearitem 210:giveitem 3005:roomitem 666
roomitem 215: clearitem 215:giveitem 3006:roomitem 666
roomitem 666 is just there to make sure that line does not complete successfully and falls through. So the spell doesn't have to be cast again to check for the next item.
So that's what I have in mind so far. The list would just contain most of the lims that I'm worried about being stashed, with more added as needed. But that means I go from direct intervention to a more auto-mated process. I'm always seeking to overcome problems without intervening. Intervention can always be construed as biased, but something like this, if applied evenly (no secret cottages) will generally be an acceptable and FAIR alternative =)
What do ya think? Thanks for taking an interest =)
-
DeathCow
Re: Stashed Limited items and Cottages.
The player could just drop the item and leave the room before the spell fires. Does your bbs have gotos? I dont recall is there a limited item only floor sweep? And are you actually running sweeps?
Re: Stashed Limited items and Cottages.
Quote from: DeathCow on November 14, 2009, 05:38:38 PMThe player could just drop the item and leave the room before the spell fires. Does your bbs have gotos? I dont recall is there a limited item only floor sweep? And are you actually running sweeps?
They could try to sneak in and drop it before the spell fires, true, but it would be annoying. Also, there would be no guarantee they could get out before the spell fires. Is there a way I can add the antique item directly to the room? Also, is there a way to remote cast a spell for a room? If I can trigger the spell on all the cottages by someone just being in a room somewhere else, that could make it unavoidable =) For instance, by putting the remote triggered spell in TS.
As for gotos, I use runes as an alternative. I allow PVP and PVP does not cooperate with GOTO. Runes are a more interesting dynamic for many reasons. They have a transition period where the user is slowed down, before being teleported. There are quests for them. To get the LC rune, a player MUST make it to LC. So that whole experience is preserved. They are loyal, so they still help with gear recovery. Even if I did not have PvP, I think I'd still keep the rune system in place instead of goto, as questing for the abilities seems like a natural extension, and I like it not being "all-or-none." [/tangential topic]
I do not run sweeps. And even if there is a limited only floor sweep, I'm not sure I would really want to use it. People do stash lims in the sewers, in their scripting spots, or leave them at bosses. I feel this is acceptable. And if it's a lim in the corner of the slums, for instance, that means that someone could still realistically find it, or I can go grab it and put it on the realm storage character.
So, yes, they "could" circumvent it, but it would require good timing, and even if it triggers once, they lose the item. Or if they try to go in and grab the item, the spell could trigger before they can pick it up. Especially if I figure out how to do an entrance/exit spell. Problem is the cottages are a single room, so there is a door as the only exit? That makes a difference, correct? So...remote actions?
They could try to sneak in and drop it before the spell fires, true, but it would be annoying. Also, there would be no guarantee they could get out before the spell fires. Is there a way I can add the antique item directly to the room? Also, is there a way to remote cast a spell for a room? If I can trigger the spell on all the cottages by someone just being in a room somewhere else, that could make it unavoidable =) For instance, by putting the remote triggered spell in TS.
As for gotos, I use runes as an alternative. I allow PVP and PVP does not cooperate with GOTO. Runes are a more interesting dynamic for many reasons. They have a transition period where the user is slowed down, before being teleported. There are quests for them. To get the LC rune, a player MUST make it to LC. So that whole experience is preserved. They are loyal, so they still help with gear recovery. Even if I did not have PvP, I think I'd still keep the rune system in place instead of goto, as questing for the abilities seems like a natural extension, and I like it not being "all-or-none." [/tangential topic]
I do not run sweeps. And even if there is a limited only floor sweep, I'm not sure I would really want to use it. People do stash lims in the sewers, in their scripting spots, or leave them at bosses. I feel this is acceptable. And if it's a lim in the corner of the slums, for instance, that means that someone could still realistically find it, or I can go grab it and put it on the realm storage character.
So, yes, they "could" circumvent it, but it would require good timing, and even if it triggers once, they lose the item. Or if they try to go in and grab the item, the spell could trigger before they can pick it up. Especially if I figure out how to do an entrance/exit spell. Problem is the cottages are a single room, so there is a door as the only exit? That makes a difference, correct? So...remote actions?
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DeathCow
Re: Stashed Limited items and Cottages.
Ah, so without the sweeps it makes my suggestions rather moot. A player could easily stash items where no one will ever find them. Sadly there are ways to permanently remove items from mmud and require sysop intervention to reclaim the items.
Re: Stashed Limited items and Cottages.
Hmm, if someone poofed an item, it would just require a re-index, correct? There is one item that I think needs to be tracked down and possibly re-indexed. But stashing items where hopefully no one can find them is common practice, is it not? I used to stash items in unused parts of the dwarven mines, for example. Or out in the black hills near Markus. I mean, there's countless places that never get frequented. If I just wanted to sweep the realm of lims on the floor, wouldn't that be fairly direct intervention? What if there's a death pile I'm not aware of?
Intentional stashing of lims in "private" areas is a concern, as I do not want to intrude into these "private" areas. Homes should take care of themselves. I think the effort required by a player to avoid the lim-stash-prevention spell would actually be fine, as it should still prevent stashing in almost all cases. If someone wants to gamble, sure, they can gamble. Also, more testing will be needed .
And like you said, I could always have a textblock that goes through the rooms and purges them, sort of like the textblocks that set up raids on Silvermere. Instead of teleporting around and summoning monsters, it would teleport around and check room items. It would be a more guaranteed method, but doesn't give me quite the same satisfaction as having a spell that triggers fairly consistently to clean up private spaces on its own
I can almost imagine the messages the users might see when a lim gets replaced.
"You watch in awe as the magic visibly drains from the artifact you placed on the floor."
So, I do know of a few ways that items can be removed but still tagged in the realm, but as far as I know, a reindex always finds them without causing any problems for lims that actually exist. Correct?
I'm enjoying this conversation. It's much more fun than doing the work I'm supposed to be doing.
Intentional stashing of lims in "private" areas is a concern, as I do not want to intrude into these "private" areas. Homes should take care of themselves. I think the effort required by a player to avoid the lim-stash-prevention spell would actually be fine, as it should still prevent stashing in almost all cases. If someone wants to gamble, sure, they can gamble. Also, more testing will be needed .
And like you said, I could always have a textblock that goes through the rooms and purges them, sort of like the textblocks that set up raids on Silvermere. Instead of teleporting around and summoning monsters, it would teleport around and check room items. It would be a more guaranteed method, but doesn't give me quite the same satisfaction as having a spell that triggers fairly consistently to clean up private spaces on its own
I can almost imagine the messages the users might see when a lim gets replaced.
"You watch in awe as the magic visibly drains from the artifact you placed on the floor."
So, I do know of a few ways that items can be removed but still tagged in the realm, but as far as I know, a reindex always finds them without causing any problems for lims that actually exist. Correct?
I'm enjoying this conversation. It's much more fun than doing the work I'm supposed to be doing.
-
DeathCow
Re: Stashed Limited items and Cottages.
Quote from: Serekon on November 14, 2009, 06:12:34 PMHmm, if someone poofed an item, it would just require a re-index, correct? There is one item that I think needs to be tracked down and possibly re-indexed. But stashing items where hopefully no one can find them is common practice, is it not? I used to stash items in unused parts of the dwarven mines, for example. Or out in the black hills near Markus. I mean, there's countless places that never get frequented. If I just wanted to sweep the realm of lims on the floor, wouldn't that be fairly direct intervention? What if there's a death pile I'm not aware of?
Intentional stashing of lims in "private" areas is a concern, as I do not want to intrude into these "private" areas. Homes should take care of themselves. I think the effort required by a player to avoid the lim-stash-prevention spell would actually be fine, as it should still prevent stashing in almost all cases. If someone wants to gamble, sure, they can gamble. Also, more testing will be needed .
And like you said, I could always have a textblock that goes through the rooms and purges them, sort of like the textblocks that set up raids on Silvermere. Instead of teleporting around and summoning monsters, it would teleport around and check room items. It would be a more guaranteed method, but doesn't give me quite the same satisfaction as having a spell that triggers fairly consistently to clean up private spaces on its own
I can almost imagine the messages the users might see when a lim gets replaced.
"You watch in awe as the magic visibly drains from the artifact you placed on the floor."
So, I do know of a few ways that items can be removed but still tagged in the realm, but as far as I know, a reindex always finds them without causing any problems for lims that actually exist. Correct?
I'm enjoying this conversation. It's much more fun than doing the work I'm supposed to be doing.
That spell that moves around and poofs items could be placed as the post exit spell for each bank, just have a few different spells that leave the player in the proper room. It is possible though for a combat round to hit the player thats teleporting around, so you COULD have the spell make the player blind, stunned, and invincible as well as lowering their ENC to nothing so that items spawned would hit the floor automatically prior to teleporting, the remove the effects afterwords. You could make both versions if you're really into having that messaged displayed
And normal item poofing will reindex, the bug that is permanent is a bug I'd rather not be responsible for posting. Although I might have at some point already, I know I've discussed it with people before, but alot of the time when i get overly technical people just agree with me and forget what i said anyway.
I'm mixing threads here..
I like that you dislike cluttering inventories, I don't like anything to be messy in my edits. One large problem I've had with getting people to work with is that I can't find people with both the 'tech' skills to master editting and the creative skills to write lengthy room and item descriptions. I'm curious as what your rooms in your new areas look like. I recall the nightmare that some ops create with nothing but lair rooms and one shitty room desc for a several hundred room area. Oh and monsters that are little more than copies of others in the game with MAYBE a tweak in their attacks, hp, (and normally ridiculously increased exp). EH I'm sure there is more stuff that people do that bother me, but hehe.
How does your realm stack up?
Intentional stashing of lims in "private" areas is a concern, as I do not want to intrude into these "private" areas. Homes should take care of themselves. I think the effort required by a player to avoid the lim-stash-prevention spell would actually be fine, as it should still prevent stashing in almost all cases. If someone wants to gamble, sure, they can gamble. Also, more testing will be needed .
And like you said, I could always have a textblock that goes through the rooms and purges them, sort of like the textblocks that set up raids on Silvermere. Instead of teleporting around and summoning monsters, it would teleport around and check room items. It would be a more guaranteed method, but doesn't give me quite the same satisfaction as having a spell that triggers fairly consistently to clean up private spaces on its own
I can almost imagine the messages the users might see when a lim gets replaced.
"You watch in awe as the magic visibly drains from the artifact you placed on the floor."
So, I do know of a few ways that items can be removed but still tagged in the realm, but as far as I know, a reindex always finds them without causing any problems for lims that actually exist. Correct?
I'm enjoying this conversation. It's much more fun than doing the work I'm supposed to be doing.
That spell that moves around and poofs items could be placed as the post exit spell for each bank, just have a few different spells that leave the player in the proper room. It is possible though for a combat round to hit the player thats teleporting around, so you COULD have the spell make the player blind, stunned, and invincible as well as lowering their ENC to nothing so that items spawned would hit the floor automatically prior to teleporting, the remove the effects afterwords. You could make both versions if you're really into having that messaged displayed
And normal item poofing will reindex, the bug that is permanent is a bug I'd rather not be responsible for posting. Although I might have at some point already, I know I've discussed it with people before, but alot of the time when i get overly technical people just agree with me and forget what i said anyway.
I'm mixing threads here..
I like that you dislike cluttering inventories, I don't like anything to be messy in my edits. One large problem I've had with getting people to work with is that I can't find people with both the 'tech' skills to master editting and the creative skills to write lengthy room and item descriptions. I'm curious as what your rooms in your new areas look like. I recall the nightmare that some ops create with nothing but lair rooms and one shitty room desc for a several hundred room area. Oh and monsters that are little more than copies of others in the game with MAYBE a tweak in their attacks, hp, (and normally ridiculously increased exp). EH I'm sure there is more stuff that people do that bother me, but hehe.
How does your realm stack up?
Re: Stashed Limited items and Cottages.
Quote from: DeathCow on November 14, 2009, 07:00:28 PMThat spell that moves around and poofs items could be placed as the post exit spell for each bank, just have a few different spells that leave the player in the proper room. It is possible though for a combat round to hit the player thats teleporting around, so you COULD have the spell make the player blind, stunned, and invincible as well as lowering their ENC to nothing so that items spawned would hit the floor automatically prior to teleporting, the remove the effects afterwords. You could make both versions if you're really into having that messaged displayed
Well, I considered having it trigger on players, but it would break up parties. I'd more likely stick it as a rare spell in the halls or in one of the extra support chambers. As for combat rounds, that would be a funny mistake for players to randomly get swung at by guards =P
I like the idea of just giving enc -200% or something as a workaround for items going to inven. But I swear there's a way to put items directly in rooms, I just don't have NMR handy (working right now).
Quote from: DeathCow on November 14, 2009, 07:00:28 PMAnd normal item poofing will reindex, the bug that is permanent is a bug I'd rather not be responsible for posting. Although I might have at some point already, I know I've discussed it with people before, but alot of the time when i get overly technical people just agree with me and forget what i said anyway.
I appreciate technical descriptions, as I'm an engineer. I am curious, but considering I do not edit the DLL or .EXE, the odds that I could find a fix are limited. If you'd care to share in a private method, I would appreciate it anyway.
Quote from: DeathCow on November 14, 2009, 07:00:28 PMI like that you dislike cluttering inventories, I don't like anything to be messy in my edits. One large problem I've had with getting people to work with is that I can't find people with both the 'tech' skills to master editing and the creative skills to write lengthy room and item descriptions. I'm curious as what your rooms in your new areas look like. I recall the nightmare that some ops create with nothing but lair rooms and one shitty room desc for a several hundred room area. Oh and monsters that are little more than copies of others in the game with MAYBE a tweak in their attacks, hp, (and normally ridiculously increased exp). EH I'm sure there is more stuff that people do that bother me, but hehe.
How does your realm stack up?
That's a great question. Perhaps another topic? I do post my MME (you can check monsters). I have dragons that summon guardian spheres, protect each other if one of them has a chest. I have a few logs posted, but I'm not sure if they include room or monster descriptions. I do tend to use existing descriptions as templates... But the MME can show you the maps, too. The dragon den is sizable and the different areas have different descriptions. Also, I find myself cleaning up the quest text in the existing mud, myself. I feel the actions of the person you are speaking to should be grey, the text green, and on separate lines. OCD.
--Kher
Well, I considered having it trigger on players, but it would break up parties. I'd more likely stick it as a rare spell in the halls or in one of the extra support chambers. As for combat rounds, that would be a funny mistake for players to randomly get swung at by guards =P
I like the idea of just giving enc -200% or something as a workaround for items going to inven. But I swear there's a way to put items directly in rooms, I just don't have NMR handy (working right now).
Quote from: DeathCow on November 14, 2009, 07:00:28 PMAnd normal item poofing will reindex, the bug that is permanent is a bug I'd rather not be responsible for posting. Although I might have at some point already, I know I've discussed it with people before, but alot of the time when i get overly technical people just agree with me and forget what i said anyway.
I appreciate technical descriptions, as I'm an engineer. I am curious, but considering I do not edit the DLL or .EXE, the odds that I could find a fix are limited. If you'd care to share in a private method, I would appreciate it anyway.
Quote from: DeathCow on November 14, 2009, 07:00:28 PMI like that you dislike cluttering inventories, I don't like anything to be messy in my edits. One large problem I've had with getting people to work with is that I can't find people with both the 'tech' skills to master editing and the creative skills to write lengthy room and item descriptions. I'm curious as what your rooms in your new areas look like. I recall the nightmare that some ops create with nothing but lair rooms and one shitty room desc for a several hundred room area. Oh and monsters that are little more than copies of others in the game with MAYBE a tweak in their attacks, hp, (and normally ridiculously increased exp). EH I'm sure there is more stuff that people do that bother me, but hehe.
How does your realm stack up?
That's a great question. Perhaps another topic? I do post my MME (you can check monsters). I have dragons that summon guardian spheres, protect each other if one of them has a chest. I have a few logs posted, but I'm not sure if they include room or monster descriptions. I do tend to use existing descriptions as templates... But the MME can show you the maps, too. The dragon den is sizable and the different areas have different descriptions. Also, I find myself cleaning up the quest text in the existing mud, myself. I feel the actions of the person you are speaking to should be grey, the text green, and on separate lines. OCD.
--Kher