Originally posted by NIN
there ARE proxies designed for absolute Stealth reasons.
and many other reasons...
You Can be completely invisible-if you wanted.
i highly disagree. unless you are proxying through an outside server (like an anonymizer) you can't mask your outside ip address. the server sees ultimately which ip address the request came from and where to send it back to.
-syn
Net Providers Must Help in Piracy Fight
Re: Net Providers Must Help in Piracy Fight
If that's so how can people who get IP banned still get places through a proxy? If you could always see the IP, they would never be able to connect. But, they can and do.
Syntax - Like I said, I don't really know much about proxies, but what you said doesn't make sense...you kinda said that you can mask your IP with an outside server like an anonymizer (wtf ever that is) but then you said that you can't mask your outside IP..I'm lost:(
Syntax - Like I said, I don't really know much about proxies, but what you said doesn't make sense...you kinda said that you can mask your IP with an outside server like an anonymizer (wtf ever that is) but then you said that you can't mask your outside IP..I'm lost:(
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Reckless
Re: Net Providers Must Help in Piracy Fight
because the proxy can assign a new IP if it's set up that way. It's a form of IP spoofing.
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NIN
Re: Net Providers Must Help in Piracy Fight
Originally posted by syntax53
i highly disagree. unless you are proxying through an outside server (like an anonymizer) you can't mask your outside ip address. the server sees ultimately which ip address the request came from and where to send it back to.
-syn
thats what i said dammnit; anonymizer...
I will try to specify what I mean when I get home...
i highly disagree. unless you are proxying through an outside server (like an anonymizer) you can't mask your outside ip address. the server sees ultimately which ip address the request came from and where to send it back to.
-syn
thats what i said dammnit; anonymizer...
I will try to specify what I mean when I get home...
Re: Net Providers Must Help in Piracy Fight
Originally posted by Platinum
If that's so how can people who get IP banned still get places through a proxy? If you could always see the IP, they would never be able to connect. But, they can and do.
Syntax - Like I said, I don't really know much about proxies, but what you said doesn't make sense...you kinda said that you can mask your IP with an outside server like an anonymizer (wtf ever that is) but then you said that you can't mask your outside IP..I'm lost:(
i'll try and explain this the best i can;
my sample network:
3 computers, switch, router, cable modem. all the computers are connected to the switch, as is the router. cable modem is connected to other port on the router. NAT (network address translation) is enabling the inside computers to access the outside network (through the router) under one IP address. this hides your local inside ipaddress to some degree but an application could still actualy ask your computer what it's ip address is and the remote server would learn that it's different than what it sees it coming from.
this is because when your computer sends a request to a website this way, the request goes from your ip address to your gateway (our router in this case), then translates the address into the outside ip address, and then it's sent through all of your ISPs routers and the internet evtually ending up at it's destination. the only place the address is translated from where it's really coming from is at our router. sad thing there is we own the outside ip that the website sees it's coming from.
an anonymizer does sort of what the router does. instead of your request going from your router to the website, it would go from your router to the anonymizer. the anonymizer would usually use NAT just like your router or resend your request but only from them and not you. when the request comes back it sends it back to you. the website then see it coming from the anonymizer's ip and not yours. the only way it could tell differently is through analyzing the ip headers on the packets or by asking your machine what it's internal ip is.
i am by far no complete expert in networking, but this is how i have come to understand things in my experiences. i could be wrong, correct me if i am.
-syn
If that's so how can people who get IP banned still get places through a proxy? If you could always see the IP, they would never be able to connect. But, they can and do.
Syntax - Like I said, I don't really know much about proxies, but what you said doesn't make sense...you kinda said that you can mask your IP with an outside server like an anonymizer (wtf ever that is) but then you said that you can't mask your outside IP..I'm lost:(
i'll try and explain this the best i can;
my sample network:
3 computers, switch, router, cable modem. all the computers are connected to the switch, as is the router. cable modem is connected to other port on the router. NAT (network address translation) is enabling the inside computers to access the outside network (through the router) under one IP address. this hides your local inside ipaddress to some degree but an application could still actualy ask your computer what it's ip address is and the remote server would learn that it's different than what it sees it coming from.
this is because when your computer sends a request to a website this way, the request goes from your ip address to your gateway (our router in this case), then translates the address into the outside ip address, and then it's sent through all of your ISPs routers and the internet evtually ending up at it's destination. the only place the address is translated from where it's really coming from is at our router. sad thing there is we own the outside ip that the website sees it's coming from.
an anonymizer does sort of what the router does. instead of your request going from your router to the website, it would go from your router to the anonymizer. the anonymizer would usually use NAT just like your router or resend your request but only from them and not you. when the request comes back it sends it back to you. the website then see it coming from the anonymizer's ip and not yours. the only way it could tell differently is through analyzing the ip headers on the packets or by asking your machine what it's internal ip is.
i am by far no complete expert in networking, but this is how i have come to understand things in my experiences. i could be wrong, correct me if i am.
-syn
Re: Net Providers Must Help in Piracy Fight
Originally posted by NIN
thats what i said dammnit; anonymizer...
I will try to specify what I mean when I get home...
sorry, i thought you were talking about something you would set up yourself on your home network. usually when people refer to proxies they are refering to something on a local network since proxies are generally for caching.
thats what i said dammnit; anonymizer...
I will try to specify what I mean when I get home...
sorry, i thought you were talking about something you would set up yourself on your home network. usually when people refer to proxies they are refering to something on a local network since proxies are generally for caching.
Re: Net Providers Must Help in Piracy Fight
There are certain levels of proxies. I should know about this cuz I use them all the time whenever I crack porn websites. There are some that are not annonymous (sp?). There are others that have a level between 1 and 5. Level 1's are the safest. They are the ones that will not give out your ip no matter what. Those are the ones that we use when we connect to the webserver it's self and get the user file. Level 2 and 3 are the next safest, and levels 4 and 5 are safe but not all that safe. So I will help you out if you wanna know about proxies but its time for me to take a test in school so I will holla at chall lata.
Re: Net Providers Must Help in Piracy Fight
how could you crack and not know how to spell anonymous?
d00d....
d00d....
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NIN
Re: Net Providers Must Help in Piracy Fight
We all know what proxies do from a practical point of view, hide your IP and cache web pages, we take for granted that it will forward our requests to the remote server, and send us back the reply. But how does it actually work from a technical aspect ?
We all know what proxies do from a practical point of view, hide your IP and cache web pages, we take for granted that it will forward our requests to the remote server, and send us back the reply. But how does it actually work from a technical aspect ?
From the top, most anonymous proxy servers we use for surfing reside in a corporate environment in an office somewhere, they’ve just been badly configured resulting in them accepting connections from anywhere. When properly configured a proxy allows a client (an employee residing on a private intranet) to access another network, most commonly; the internet, why not just use a NAT capable router for this ? Well, a proxy server can also restrict services on a user to user basis, for example user a can use http and ftp, but user b can use http ftp and nntp, it’s a very flexible standard. From a technical standpoint proxy servers enable the joining of networks in ways other solutions (hubs, routers, bridges and so on) cant, before I explain more, lets take a look at the OSI (open systems interconnect) model;
7. Application Layer: as you’d expect the high level stuff takes place here, its all application specific, things such as authentication and privacy are processed in this layer, ftp and telnet exist exclusively in this layer
6. Presentation Layer: This is pretty important layer, it takes the application specific data and translates it into information almost any system can understand (and vice versa) negating any incompatibility issues.
5. Session Layer: Deals with the negotiation, continuation and termination of remote connections.
4. Transport Layer: Deals with the maintenance of data integrity and flow control.
3. Network Layer: This is the layer we’re primarily concerned with in our example, routing, switching and forwarding takes place here, creating what is sometimes referred to as virtual circuits.
2. Data Link Layer: encodes/decodes everything into/from 0’s and 1’s, binary, data in its lowest form, sometimes its broken up into 2 layers, the logical link control layer which deals with lower level synchronisation, flow control and error checking, and the media access control (MAC) layer which deals with permissions and authentication.
1. Physical Layer: This layer transmits the 0’s and 1’s as electrical or light based impulses, the mechanical layer if you will.
So what the arse has that got to do with proxy servers ? Proxies operate above the network layer of the model, allowing them more information and thusly allowing them to operate more effectively, more specifically and in different ways than routers. They can analyse the actual packet content, not just the headers as is the case at the network layer and operate on what it finds. So, proxy servers are superior to lower level solutions, they can offer caching, security, logging and IP translation, Such rich functionality however comes at a cost, routers are popular for a reason, while they perform fewer functions they’re faster than proxies, cheaper and require less maintenance, if you just want to connect two networks a proxy server is impractical.
As previously mentioned proxy servers provide IP translation, its this translation that allows us to remain anonymous behind some proxy servers, a form of NAT in a way, a badly configured server will accept connections from anywhere and regard those connections as part of the internal network, it will then make requests on our behalf under its own IP, the reason it doesn’t do it under our IP is because internal networks (those behind a proxy) use a private IP scheme to conserve space for public IP’s (normal internet users) and all public requests are made through the proxy server which has a normal public IP and as far as the internet is concerned could be a normal dial up user, the following diagram perhaps explains better:
Internal Network (private ip’s) Badly configured proxy (public ip) Internet
^
You (regarded by the proxy as part of the internal network)
What proxy servers were initially conceived for though, is caching (that is, the act of storing information locally for quicker retrieval), and as bandwidth demands increase and price parallel with it this is becoming more and more important in, not just a corporate environment but to home users too, some ISP’s infact have taken to using what are known as inline proxies (proxy servers that you don’t configure in your browser, but your connection is automatically routed through it at the ISP end, like it or not) in an attempt to reduce bandwidth usage and costs. In reference to our earlier OSI observations, caching is only available in application layer servers. There are a few different types of caching, the first type we will discuss is referred to as
‘distributed caching’ this is basically a bit like a disk array, the data is stored over a number of servers to achieve a load balancing effect. Another type is ‘hierarchical caching’ where many proxy servers are in operation its pointless each server having the same data/webpage stored, only one copy should exist, to ensure this 2 levels of proxies exist, the first level gets the page from the internet directly whilst the second level takes the page from the first level, these forms of proxying only exist in a large corporate environment. But how do the second layer know what the first layer has and vice versa ? enter internet cache protocol (herein known as ICP, love them acronyms) without ICP the second layer of proxies would pretty much be redundant in a caching sense, it would just pass on requests to the first layer which would return data and the second layer would pass it onto the client, ICP establishes the hierarchy and allows the servers to share documents whilst queuing requests for uncached data.
The third type of caching we will discuss is known as ‘on demand caching’ (or passive caching), with this technique the cached data has an expiration point, upon the advent of which the data is redownloaded to the server for quick retrieval by a client on the internal network, whilst this lowers bandwidth usage, it increases the wait for a client in cases where the data requested isn’t in the cache, the flipside of the coin though is the fact that, with other types of proxies the data in the cache can become stale (a problem in an environment where upto the minute info is needed, stockbrokers, for instance) the administrator can set the cache expiration time to allow for a trade off between bandwidth usage and practical benefits, in most cases a passive caching proxy will reacquire the data just before it expires ensuring a seamless transition for the user between the new and old page. The final and less common (although growing) type of proxy server is the ‘reverse proxy’ which is pretty much what it says, it stores data on the internal network to allow external clients to access it quicker and without causing latency on the internal network.
A downside to caching is the issue of secured pages, that is, any data external to the network which requires a username/password, imagine user a, has legitimate access to a remote, secured resource, he/she requests the resource, enters the u/p and obtains access to secured data. User b then comes along, who doesn’t have legitimate access to the secured data, he/she can get at whatever user a has requested via the joys of caching without ever providing a u/p.
As abuse of company resources by employees becomes more and more common, employers look for ways to prohibit such abuse, proxy server to the rescue once again, whilst transport layer solutions can block requests to and from certain places, that’s way too general for most offices, sophisticated application layer proxy servers can go so far as to analyse the content and filter accordingly, for example a proxy may block a picture with a certain amount of flesh colour in it, additionally a proxy server allows for advanced logging as all requests will pass through it on the way out.
We all know what proxies do from a practical point of view, hide your IP and cache web pages, we take for granted that it will forward our requests to the remote server, and send us back the reply. But how does it actually work from a technical aspect ?
From the top, most anonymous proxy servers we use for surfing reside in a corporate environment in an office somewhere, they’ve just been badly configured resulting in them accepting connections from anywhere. When properly configured a proxy allows a client (an employee residing on a private intranet) to access another network, most commonly; the internet, why not just use a NAT capable router for this ? Well, a proxy server can also restrict services on a user to user basis, for example user a can use http and ftp, but user b can use http ftp and nntp, it’s a very flexible standard. From a technical standpoint proxy servers enable the joining of networks in ways other solutions (hubs, routers, bridges and so on) cant, before I explain more, lets take a look at the OSI (open systems interconnect) model;
7. Application Layer: as you’d expect the high level stuff takes place here, its all application specific, things such as authentication and privacy are processed in this layer, ftp and telnet exist exclusively in this layer
6. Presentation Layer: This is pretty important layer, it takes the application specific data and translates it into information almost any system can understand (and vice versa) negating any incompatibility issues.
5. Session Layer: Deals with the negotiation, continuation and termination of remote connections.
4. Transport Layer: Deals with the maintenance of data integrity and flow control.
3. Network Layer: This is the layer we’re primarily concerned with in our example, routing, switching and forwarding takes place here, creating what is sometimes referred to as virtual circuits.
2. Data Link Layer: encodes/decodes everything into/from 0’s and 1’s, binary, data in its lowest form, sometimes its broken up into 2 layers, the logical link control layer which deals with lower level synchronisation, flow control and error checking, and the media access control (MAC) layer which deals with permissions and authentication.
1. Physical Layer: This layer transmits the 0’s and 1’s as electrical or light based impulses, the mechanical layer if you will.
So what the arse has that got to do with proxy servers ? Proxies operate above the network layer of the model, allowing them more information and thusly allowing them to operate more effectively, more specifically and in different ways than routers. They can analyse the actual packet content, not just the headers as is the case at the network layer and operate on what it finds. So, proxy servers are superior to lower level solutions, they can offer caching, security, logging and IP translation, Such rich functionality however comes at a cost, routers are popular for a reason, while they perform fewer functions they’re faster than proxies, cheaper and require less maintenance, if you just want to connect two networks a proxy server is impractical.
As previously mentioned proxy servers provide IP translation, its this translation that allows us to remain anonymous behind some proxy servers, a form of NAT in a way, a badly configured server will accept connections from anywhere and regard those connections as part of the internal network, it will then make requests on our behalf under its own IP, the reason it doesn’t do it under our IP is because internal networks (those behind a proxy) use a private IP scheme to conserve space for public IP’s (normal internet users) and all public requests are made through the proxy server which has a normal public IP and as far as the internet is concerned could be a normal dial up user, the following diagram perhaps explains better:
Internal Network (private ip’s) Badly configured proxy (public ip) Internet
^
You (regarded by the proxy as part of the internal network)
What proxy servers were initially conceived for though, is caching (that is, the act of storing information locally for quicker retrieval), and as bandwidth demands increase and price parallel with it this is becoming more and more important in, not just a corporate environment but to home users too, some ISP’s infact have taken to using what are known as inline proxies (proxy servers that you don’t configure in your browser, but your connection is automatically routed through it at the ISP end, like it or not) in an attempt to reduce bandwidth usage and costs. In reference to our earlier OSI observations, caching is only available in application layer servers. There are a few different types of caching, the first type we will discuss is referred to as
‘distributed caching’ this is basically a bit like a disk array, the data is stored over a number of servers to achieve a load balancing effect. Another type is ‘hierarchical caching’ where many proxy servers are in operation its pointless each server having the same data/webpage stored, only one copy should exist, to ensure this 2 levels of proxies exist, the first level gets the page from the internet directly whilst the second level takes the page from the first level, these forms of proxying only exist in a large corporate environment. But how do the second layer know what the first layer has and vice versa ? enter internet cache protocol (herein known as ICP, love them acronyms) without ICP the second layer of proxies would pretty much be redundant in a caching sense, it would just pass on requests to the first layer which would return data and the second layer would pass it onto the client, ICP establishes the hierarchy and allows the servers to share documents whilst queuing requests for uncached data.
The third type of caching we will discuss is known as ‘on demand caching’ (or passive caching), with this technique the cached data has an expiration point, upon the advent of which the data is redownloaded to the server for quick retrieval by a client on the internal network, whilst this lowers bandwidth usage, it increases the wait for a client in cases where the data requested isn’t in the cache, the flipside of the coin though is the fact that, with other types of proxies the data in the cache can become stale (a problem in an environment where upto the minute info is needed, stockbrokers, for instance) the administrator can set the cache expiration time to allow for a trade off between bandwidth usage and practical benefits, in most cases a passive caching proxy will reacquire the data just before it expires ensuring a seamless transition for the user between the new and old page. The final and less common (although growing) type of proxy server is the ‘reverse proxy’ which is pretty much what it says, it stores data on the internal network to allow external clients to access it quicker and without causing latency on the internal network.
A downside to caching is the issue of secured pages, that is, any data external to the network which requires a username/password, imagine user a, has legitimate access to a remote, secured resource, he/she requests the resource, enters the u/p and obtains access to secured data. User b then comes along, who doesn’t have legitimate access to the secured data, he/she can get at whatever user a has requested via the joys of caching without ever providing a u/p.
As abuse of company resources by employees becomes more and more common, employers look for ways to prohibit such abuse, proxy server to the rescue once again, whilst transport layer solutions can block requests to and from certain places, that’s way too general for most offices, sophisticated application layer proxy servers can go so far as to analyse the content and filter accordingly, for example a proxy may block a picture with a certain amount of flesh colour in it, additionally a proxy server allows for advanced logging as all requests will pass through it on the way out.
-
NIN
Re: Net Providers Must Help in Piracy Fight
remember, you have 0 privacy!
I Appologize to everyone - I cant find my old list of Anon proxies and such.. And I dont care to search ;)
there are anonymous lists like: http://www.multiproxy.org/
and IP checkers - to see if your IP shows...
(your IP will show up on the Proxy Server's log)
much more could be done about your IP though!!
I Appologize to everyone - I cant find my old list of Anon proxies and such.. And I dont care to search ;)
there are anonymous lists like: http://www.multiproxy.org/
and IP checkers - to see if your IP shows...
(your IP will show up on the Proxy Server's log)
much more could be done about your IP though!!