Speed - 2 parties deems room casters 100% useless.
If 1 party w/ room casters goes in first and rooms, the roomers die..
If 2 parties go in, 1 get's hit hard and probably dies also.
party bug [Archive] - ForumsHQ
Re: party bug [Archive] - ForumsHQ
I'm too lazy to figure out the specifics, but the bug's not hard to do on purpose. Just use the arena. Have both in a party, trying various methods of killing each other and one or the other leading out.... I usually get it after about 3 or 4 tries. Takes a few minutes at best since you ressurrect in the next room. And remember to have the one that grabbed the cash walk into a shop, buy some cheap crap, and have the other share back. Most people don't do that for some reason and wind up lugging a million gold from the halls/arena by hand.
Originally posted by MrBlack
I read in the quests section that to do the final boss in the nuetral quest (lich, i think?) you would likely need around 12 people. I know they say Metro made mod9 deliberatly party intesively difficult, but YTF didn't they increase the party limit????
Yes 6 is good...IF YOUR KILLING THE ASD!!! 6 is not enough for anything in mod9...Ask Vegeta Seriously need to fix that shit Metro!!
There is absolutely no boss in the game that you can't do with 4 or 5 people. In i, anyway. I'm a 49 neko paladin, dupe's a 49 delf bard. Do scripting and boss runs with a 59 delf pally, 58 delf mystic, and 48 halfling priest. We took the Dreadlord of Blood when my 2 were 46, and the priest was a sorryass 30. No casualities. Yes, this is legit, and for those that don't know much legit, the Dreadlord of Blood is widely considered the hardest boss in mod 9. Moreso than the Lich, although personally I find Ozrinom the Vampire Lord to be a much bigger bitch. If you think about it hard enough, there's a trick to make nearly ANY boss easy. The only mod 9 boss you can't do anything to make into a sissy is the Dark Mage, and quite frankly you can just take a few people and get some lucky rounds. If you get low, hang up. You come back in Arlysia anyway. The paladin/mystic killed him without any help. Just took a couple tries. Dreadlord of Blood, Darken Beast Lord, Lord Feyr, Hanging Tree, Engima Lord, Death Minion, and a few others rely almost solely on physical attacks. So it's simple: load up on dodge. With a halfling mystic/ninja, it's possible to attain 100% dodge. Total immunity to physical attacks. With our delf we managed 97%. Just use everything dodge that you can. Multicoloured sash, gypsy card wheel of fortune (like 3% of mudders know that exists), batt, SMRs, SSTs, ect. ect. Even the much feared Dreadlord of Blood isn't a big hardass when you've got a 90-some percent dodge wall. Ten spell and load up on MR in non-dodge item slots and he becomes a pussycat. Yeah, a bunch of these monsters' strategies revolve around abusing the pre-j dodge system... but everybody laughed at me when I said I could do it with 5 people in 1.11i, too. There's always a way, just remember there's more ways to do things than with your sword.
That said, the 6 party limit is really just in place because it'd be a little too good for a bard or priest to do their best roomers on 15 people for the same mana as 2. Let's do a little math. Godheal maxes at 60-130 for 24 mana. In between being 95. 95/24 = 3.95. Now divine mercy maxes at 43-102 with 72 being the in between, and 60 mana cost. (72*15)/60 = 18. So we've got 4 and a half times the mana efficency on top of taking care of roomers on 15 people. So I can see why they'd keep the party limit at its current.
However, the biggest problem IMO is when you've got a party that big, some of them are BOUND to be offensive room casters. And they can't use that ability because they'd kill half their own party. So they really outta either add a way to set someone as a friend ingame so your rooms will avoid them, or take off the party size cap and change the way mana cost is on spells so rather than a static amount, it has a basic cost and multiplies that by the number of people it's on. Of course, the side effect of that would be offensive roomers getting the same thing, and them crying bloody murder when they get charged 450 mana for hellstorming a room of 15 giant war dogs.
So really, there's no good solution to the party limit problem. EVERY option leaves someone out in the cold. And since this is Metro, I don't know about you, but I'm hoping they don't change it. Because if they do, then we're looking at a year and a half of party-induced bugs that do everything from crash your board to nuke your limited items.
Oh, and I just have to say it... 6 isn't enough for anything in mod 9? Try the banished one sometime. :) He's hell of a hardass for droping arguably the best item in the game for 4 classes.
Banished One! Coming to a Newhaven near you!
Originally posted by Speed
Having more than 6 members in a party will make priests/party healers more powerful than they were.
Umm... already were? Priests and bards are two of the most screwed over classes (nobody's as bad as witchies though) in the game. Priests are nearly useless on big boss runs. Both Ozrinom and the Dreadlord's rooms can easily, EASILY dish out well over 1000 damage to one person. A priest can't do jack shit to help against that kinda damage. There's more than a few bosses with instant death spells... Again, priests can't do anything. They're good for being script bitches, but that's about it. When it comes time to take on the nightmares of those sad mortals in Arlysia, I'd prefer a paladin or ranger at my back, thanks. And bards... Bards took a GIGANTIC hit when mod 9 came out, and another one in j. Song of battle, once the most desired spell in the game, is barely worth the time it takes to type "batt" in j. +5 dodge won't even matter at ALL in many places, and in the places where it does it sure as hell won't be any 5%. Maybe 2 or 3%. And the crits.. rofl. In i, it was 2-3%. In j, it has to pass an accuracy check... so you'll get like 1, MAYBE 2% crits out of it. And 1 DR? Oh hooray, the storm giant that hit me for 190 would've hit me for 191 before! That's gonna make a ton of difference! All this for a spell that costs nearly 7 mana per tick to keep up. Even more if you don't have 190+ SC. Well at least they've got deflection... wait, no, deflection is now a simple armor spell with the same cost/duration as battle. Oh joy. Stun? Triple the old mana cost, and you better be planning to use it for pvp because ain't nothing worth killing got less than 19 spellimmu. Hell, some of the j bosses have 45 spellimmu. Quik and hero have lost a lot of luster with the shiny new q&d cap. How bad's the q&d cap, you ask? How's a level 65 neko paladin critting 16% with the Darkbane sound? Hmm... well then, while we're at it with the q&d cap, it seems to me that one-handers are pretty much a thing of the past in j. What's bards' weapon restriction? Oh yeah....
While I think letting them cast their spells on 15 people at once isn't the best idea, I hardly think the main party spell classes are so fabulous. They've both taken a hell of a beating since mod 9 came out, and the future looks grim.
Originally posted by MrBlack
I read in the quests section that to do the final boss in the nuetral quest (lich, i think?) you would likely need around 12 people. I know they say Metro made mod9 deliberatly party intesively difficult, but YTF didn't they increase the party limit????
Yes 6 is good...IF YOUR KILLING THE ASD!!! 6 is not enough for anything in mod9...Ask Vegeta Seriously need to fix that shit Metro!!
There is absolutely no boss in the game that you can't do with 4 or 5 people. In i, anyway. I'm a 49 neko paladin, dupe's a 49 delf bard. Do scripting and boss runs with a 59 delf pally, 58 delf mystic, and 48 halfling priest. We took the Dreadlord of Blood when my 2 were 46, and the priest was a sorryass 30. No casualities. Yes, this is legit, and for those that don't know much legit, the Dreadlord of Blood is widely considered the hardest boss in mod 9. Moreso than the Lich, although personally I find Ozrinom the Vampire Lord to be a much bigger bitch. If you think about it hard enough, there's a trick to make nearly ANY boss easy. The only mod 9 boss you can't do anything to make into a sissy is the Dark Mage, and quite frankly you can just take a few people and get some lucky rounds. If you get low, hang up. You come back in Arlysia anyway. The paladin/mystic killed him without any help. Just took a couple tries. Dreadlord of Blood, Darken Beast Lord, Lord Feyr, Hanging Tree, Engima Lord, Death Minion, and a few others rely almost solely on physical attacks. So it's simple: load up on dodge. With a halfling mystic/ninja, it's possible to attain 100% dodge. Total immunity to physical attacks. With our delf we managed 97%. Just use everything dodge that you can. Multicoloured sash, gypsy card wheel of fortune (like 3% of mudders know that exists), batt, SMRs, SSTs, ect. ect. Even the much feared Dreadlord of Blood isn't a big hardass when you've got a 90-some percent dodge wall. Ten spell and load up on MR in non-dodge item slots and he becomes a pussycat. Yeah, a bunch of these monsters' strategies revolve around abusing the pre-j dodge system... but everybody laughed at me when I said I could do it with 5 people in 1.11i, too. There's always a way, just remember there's more ways to do things than with your sword.
That said, the 6 party limit is really just in place because it'd be a little too good for a bard or priest to do their best roomers on 15 people for the same mana as 2. Let's do a little math. Godheal maxes at 60-130 for 24 mana. In between being 95. 95/24 = 3.95. Now divine mercy maxes at 43-102 with 72 being the in between, and 60 mana cost. (72*15)/60 = 18. So we've got 4 and a half times the mana efficency on top of taking care of roomers on 15 people. So I can see why they'd keep the party limit at its current.
However, the biggest problem IMO is when you've got a party that big, some of them are BOUND to be offensive room casters. And they can't use that ability because they'd kill half their own party. So they really outta either add a way to set someone as a friend ingame so your rooms will avoid them, or take off the party size cap and change the way mana cost is on spells so rather than a static amount, it has a basic cost and multiplies that by the number of people it's on. Of course, the side effect of that would be offensive roomers getting the same thing, and them crying bloody murder when they get charged 450 mana for hellstorming a room of 15 giant war dogs.
So really, there's no good solution to the party limit problem. EVERY option leaves someone out in the cold. And since this is Metro, I don't know about you, but I'm hoping they don't change it. Because if they do, then we're looking at a year and a half of party-induced bugs that do everything from crash your board to nuke your limited items.
Oh, and I just have to say it... 6 isn't enough for anything in mod 9? Try the banished one sometime. :) He's hell of a hardass for droping arguably the best item in the game for 4 classes.
Banished One! Coming to a Newhaven near you!
Originally posted by Speed
Having more than 6 members in a party will make priests/party healers more powerful than they were.
Umm... already were? Priests and bards are two of the most screwed over classes (nobody's as bad as witchies though) in the game. Priests are nearly useless on big boss runs. Both Ozrinom and the Dreadlord's rooms can easily, EASILY dish out well over 1000 damage to one person. A priest can't do jack shit to help against that kinda damage. There's more than a few bosses with instant death spells... Again, priests can't do anything. They're good for being script bitches, but that's about it. When it comes time to take on the nightmares of those sad mortals in Arlysia, I'd prefer a paladin or ranger at my back, thanks. And bards... Bards took a GIGANTIC hit when mod 9 came out, and another one in j. Song of battle, once the most desired spell in the game, is barely worth the time it takes to type "batt" in j. +5 dodge won't even matter at ALL in many places, and in the places where it does it sure as hell won't be any 5%. Maybe 2 or 3%. And the crits.. rofl. In i, it was 2-3%. In j, it has to pass an accuracy check... so you'll get like 1, MAYBE 2% crits out of it. And 1 DR? Oh hooray, the storm giant that hit me for 190 would've hit me for 191 before! That's gonna make a ton of difference! All this for a spell that costs nearly 7 mana per tick to keep up. Even more if you don't have 190+ SC. Well at least they've got deflection... wait, no, deflection is now a simple armor spell with the same cost/duration as battle. Oh joy. Stun? Triple the old mana cost, and you better be planning to use it for pvp because ain't nothing worth killing got less than 19 spellimmu. Hell, some of the j bosses have 45 spellimmu. Quik and hero have lost a lot of luster with the shiny new q&d cap. How bad's the q&d cap, you ask? How's a level 65 neko paladin critting 16% with the Darkbane sound? Hmm... well then, while we're at it with the q&d cap, it seems to me that one-handers are pretty much a thing of the past in j. What's bards' weapon restriction? Oh yeah....
While I think letting them cast their spells on 15 people at once isn't the best idea, I hardly think the main party spell classes are so fabulous. They've both taken a hell of a beating since mod 9 came out, and the future looks grim.
Re: party bug [Archive] - ForumsHQ
I didn't say they were powerful, I said it would make them more powerful than they were, bad wording I guess. I meant exactly what you said, it'd make them cast godheal on 15 people instead of 6, which would make them better in turn. I like the idea of setting someone as friend, but it would probably work as good as the forget option.
Re: party bug [Archive] - ForumsHQ
Ok, I got about half way thru your post Atma, and just zoned hehe
I tend to play druids and really don't rely on mystics or ninjas for help..Since most of the people that I know that play them seem to think they are God-incarnate. Yes, I know that you can get close to 100% dodge...in i...now, j is a totally new matter...but I'm not gonna go there just yet.
When I talk about partying to do bosses, I tend to have more warriors, priests and mages available to me (it seems that the mystics and ninjas on alot of the previous boards I played on never wanted to leave their scripting spots for fear of not making enough exp...) I'm not talking about the morbid players, much.
Ok. I just skimmed back over the part before that last quote you put in. I can't really tell if your for or against wanting the party size to be enlarged hehe. It would be nice, to be able to lug around large parties..especially if metro keeps increaseing the level limit and difficulty of their mods. I don't know, it must just be the people I play with on these boards, but it usually takes a few trips to get anywhere in mod9 (yet again, ninjas and mystics seem to have problems with their stats in this capacity). I know when Vegeta and I went out with most of the gang to mod9, they got whomped on pretty good..and thats mainly because metro has really started to use alot more magic in their monsters..and made MR more of a necessity (hehe, stupid ninjas with >50mr)
Of, so I got a little off my point, ppl needa quit messaging me while I'm posting...micah....archy ;)
I tend to play druids and really don't rely on mystics or ninjas for help..Since most of the people that I know that play them seem to think they are God-incarnate. Yes, I know that you can get close to 100% dodge...in i...now, j is a totally new matter...but I'm not gonna go there just yet.
When I talk about partying to do bosses, I tend to have more warriors, priests and mages available to me (it seems that the mystics and ninjas on alot of the previous boards I played on never wanted to leave their scripting spots for fear of not making enough exp...) I'm not talking about the morbid players, much.
Ok. I just skimmed back over the part before that last quote you put in. I can't really tell if your for or against wanting the party size to be enlarged hehe. It would be nice, to be able to lug around large parties..especially if metro keeps increaseing the level limit and difficulty of their mods. I don't know, it must just be the people I play with on these boards, but it usually takes a few trips to get anywhere in mod9 (yet again, ninjas and mystics seem to have problems with their stats in this capacity). I know when Vegeta and I went out with most of the gang to mod9, they got whomped on pretty good..and thats mainly because metro has really started to use alot more magic in their monsters..and made MR more of a necessity (hehe, stupid ninjas with >50mr)
Of, so I got a little off my point, ppl needa quit messaging me while I'm posting...micah....archy ;)
Re: party bug [Archive] - ForumsHQ
Bugs are my specialty.. party splitting works in 1.11i, and if they fixed it in 1.11j they didn't bother having me beta test it. The easiest places to do it are areas where you exit in one room and re-enter in another, like the Asylum in Rhudaur.. just form your party up where you enter and when the leader moves sometimes the follower won't. It doesn't work every time but it's reliable enough that I'd never carry money around the hard way :) If you want to do it in an arena you usually need a 3rd person to kill the 2 who wanna split, but it can be done in Lost City or Khazarad or anywhere like that.
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Rust In Peace
Re: party bug [Archive] - ForumsHQ
The way I used to do it, was in Khaz arena and it went something like this: leader kills follower, then leader gets killed by a 3rd person, then leader invites follower, goes north, while follower goes down and gets stuck in Khaz arena while leader can go wherever he wants to.
Re: party bug [Archive] - ForumsHQ
Originally posted by Speed
I didn't say they were powerful, I said it would make them more powerful than they were, bad wording I guess. I meant exactly what you said, it'd make them cast godheal on 15 people instead of 6, which would make them better in turn. I like the idea of setting someone as friend, but it would probably work as good as the forget option.
Ahhh. Yeah, probably. Seems that even when they try to do the simplest things, they wind up with some pathetic bug. I mean, look at the new training area. I wonder whose bright idea it was to make it so you couldn't just leave without finishing if you found out your party couldn't do it. I feel sorry for everybody that listened to Frosty the Blowman and went in there blindly with a handful of people.
Originally posted by MyBlack
I tend to play druids and really don't rely on mystics or ninjas for help..Since most of the people that I know that play them seem to think they are God-incarnate.
Have to have at least a semi-decent selection of characters if you wanna do things with small numbers. It's not all the dodgegods that I rely on.. When we're killing Ozrinom or embarrassing the dark phoenix, it's the paladins' time to shine.
Originally posted by MyBlack
now, j is a totally new matter...but I'm not gonna go there just yet.
You'd think so, wouldn't you? Wanna see a cap of some bone warriors missing my paladin.... 175 times in a row? Granted, that doesn't work for most bosses but it works well enough usually. The Dreadlord is managable even. Now his buggyass Warmongers, on the other hand... Metro forgot to change their accuracy, and they still mostly do 999 accuracy attacks. Anyway, point being, just because they reworked a few things doesn't mean there aren't any oversights you can abuse to get what you want done done. I've already figured out another way to kill the Dreadlord with my party even though it's not nearly as reliable or efficent as the old way.
Hell, there's actually MORE things to abuse in j. The Lich is a quarter billion exp and has a 1 hr regen. You do the math there. Granted, he's not exactly easy and my method requires using a ton of potions so it can't be done repeatedly... But if you had a party that could kill him a reasonable amount of the time... How much exp is that a day?
Originally posted by MyBlack
I just skimmed back over the part before that last quote you put in. I can't really tell if your for or against wanting the party size to be enlarged hehe. It would be nice, to be able to lug around large parties..especially if metro keeps increaseing the level limit and difficulty of their mods.
I don't really care what they do because no matter what they do, somebody gets the short end of the stick. As you said though, the difficulty is jumping by leaps and bounds (mod 8 excluded). Mod 7, mod 9, and the j training area are all huge leaps in difficulty... So I think sooner or later we'll see something for the party limits. Probably be quite a while, though. I think the biggest pain in the ass though is that most boards allow 1 or 2 dupes. So a party can really only hold 2 or 3 people. That just sucks.
I didn't say they were powerful, I said it would make them more powerful than they were, bad wording I guess. I meant exactly what you said, it'd make them cast godheal on 15 people instead of 6, which would make them better in turn. I like the idea of setting someone as friend, but it would probably work as good as the forget option.
Ahhh. Yeah, probably. Seems that even when they try to do the simplest things, they wind up with some pathetic bug. I mean, look at the new training area. I wonder whose bright idea it was to make it so you couldn't just leave without finishing if you found out your party couldn't do it. I feel sorry for everybody that listened to Frosty the Blowman and went in there blindly with a handful of people.
Originally posted by MyBlack
I tend to play druids and really don't rely on mystics or ninjas for help..Since most of the people that I know that play them seem to think they are God-incarnate.
Have to have at least a semi-decent selection of characters if you wanna do things with small numbers. It's not all the dodgegods that I rely on.. When we're killing Ozrinom or embarrassing the dark phoenix, it's the paladins' time to shine.
Originally posted by MyBlack
now, j is a totally new matter...but I'm not gonna go there just yet.
You'd think so, wouldn't you? Wanna see a cap of some bone warriors missing my paladin.... 175 times in a row? Granted, that doesn't work for most bosses but it works well enough usually. The Dreadlord is managable even. Now his buggyass Warmongers, on the other hand... Metro forgot to change their accuracy, and they still mostly do 999 accuracy attacks. Anyway, point being, just because they reworked a few things doesn't mean there aren't any oversights you can abuse to get what you want done done. I've already figured out another way to kill the Dreadlord with my party even though it's not nearly as reliable or efficent as the old way.
Hell, there's actually MORE things to abuse in j. The Lich is a quarter billion exp and has a 1 hr regen. You do the math there. Granted, he's not exactly easy and my method requires using a ton of potions so it can't be done repeatedly... But if you had a party that could kill him a reasonable amount of the time... How much exp is that a day?
Originally posted by MyBlack
I just skimmed back over the part before that last quote you put in. I can't really tell if your for or against wanting the party size to be enlarged hehe. It would be nice, to be able to lug around large parties..especially if metro keeps increaseing the level limit and difficulty of their mods.
I don't really care what they do because no matter what they do, somebody gets the short end of the stick. As you said though, the difficulty is jumping by leaps and bounds (mod 8 excluded). Mod 7, mod 9, and the j training area are all huge leaps in difficulty... So I think sooner or later we'll see something for the party limits. Probably be quite a while, though. I think the biggest pain in the ass though is that most boards allow 1 or 2 dupes. So a party can really only hold 2 or 3 people. That just sucks.
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Rust In Peace
Re: party bug [Archive] - ForumsHQ
The Lich is a quarter billion exp and has a 1 hr regen. You do the math there. Granted, he's not exactly easy and my method requires using a ton of potions so it can't be done repeatedly... But if you had a party that could kill him a reasonable amount of the time... How much exp is that a day?
1 hour? Are you sure? Even metro in their infinite *cough* wisdom wouldn't be that stupid..
1 hour? Are you sure? Even metro in their infinite *cough* wisdom wouldn't be that stupid..
Re: party bug [Archive] - ForumsHQ
Originally posted by Rust In Peace
1 hour? Are you sure? Even metro in their infinite *cough* wisdom wouldn't be that stupid..
Quite positive. The only catch is that you can't just look in the room and make him regen, you have to go back through the bone portal after an hour. They just didn't think it was at all possible for people to reliably kill him since he was in the game for a year and nobody has ever hard of a board killing him a bunch of times for more skull-capped staffs. Stupid Metro, it's possible, you just didn't give us a good enough reason to with the staffs.
1 hour? Are you sure? Even metro in their infinite *cough* wisdom wouldn't be that stupid..
Quite positive. The only catch is that you can't just look in the room and make him regen, you have to go back through the bone portal after an hour. They just didn't think it was at all possible for people to reliably kill him since he was in the game for a year and nobody has ever hard of a board killing him a bunch of times for more skull-capped staffs. Stupid Metro, it's possible, you just didn't give us a good enough reason to with the staffs.
Re: party bug [Archive] - ForumsHQ
HOW TO PARTY BUG BY THE GREAT DECA:
get 2 people
suicide one leave other in hall
form a party in halls (lead with suicider)
run the leader up
(do this within 10 seconds)
share as necessary
get 2 people
suicide one leave other in hall
form a party in halls (lead with suicider)
run the leader up
(do this within 10 seconds)
share as necessary