Um both times he claims to have his dupe on, when his other was offline.
True but the real question at hand is, was Kalus’s dupe in the same room as Athen searching when athen was attacked or did Kalus’s dupe never enter the room in which Athen was hiding and exit the realm before Athen was even attacked.
If Kalus’s dupe was in the realm but not in Athens room then the breaking of the dupe rule would have nothing to do with Athens pvp defeat and Kalus should get his gear back.
If Kalus’s dupe was in the realm and in Athens room but leaves the realm prior to Kalus’s attack on Athen then there was no cheating involved past knowing what room Athen was in. This wouldn’t have much effect on pvp other than Kalus would know what room to walk into. This still would only be breaking the dupe rule and Kalus most likely should be given his gear back.
Now the only clear case of cheating is if Kalus’s dupe was in the realm and in Athens room searching when Athen was attacked. Even still if Athen was sneaking before he hid searching would only make athen able to be targeted for attack. Athen would still have been able to backstab so the PVP odds still comes down to the speed of a keystroke since Athen got rounded. So I would believe even if Kalus did cheat it had little if any effect on the outcome of their PVP. Syntax him self said that he assess each incident for the damage that is done and makes his punishment based on this. So if little or no change to the odds of this PVP match happened than little or no reward should have been given to Athen and Kalus should still get his gear back.
However; Until we see the cap and the call log all we have is blind speculation and semi-logical conclusions with the possibility of the cap being fraudulent as Kalus claims possible.
Unfortunately the call log might be fairly invalid also, unless it shows what module Kalus’s dupe and main character is in and differentiates between the dupe sitting at the module menu and the dupe actually in the game. Even the page the # sign pulls up does not differentiate between the dupe sitting at the module menu and the dupe actually in the game.
What we really needed is a cap of the exit messages along with some sort of time stamping or other time able event. This might be the only way of proving with out err that Kalus is guilty or innocent or if Athen is just an ass for wasting Syntax’s time by lying and forging a PVP capture there by starting this whole mess.
In the end all we might have; is the word of Athen verses the word of Kalus. Who knows which one is more trustworthy and honest; that is something, which I do not know, do you? How many of you would feel comfortable striping a character of all his gear on the word of another player with out infallible evidence against that player?
TCA
warning: dont play here
Re: warning: dont play here
Guild Street, Southern End
Also here: Sintax, Kalus, black cat, townsman, guardsman, large guardsman.
Obvious exits: north, south, east, west
Sintax is searching the area.
[HP=736/MA=143]:n
Kalus moves to attack you!
[HP=728/MA=143]:sd
Kalus critically jumpkicks you for 219 damage!
Kalus critically jumpkicks you for 316 damage!
Kalus critically jumpkicks you for 168 damage!
Kalus jumpkicks you for 62 damage!
Athen drops to the ground!
Kalus jumpkicks you for 65 damage!
You have been killed!
unfortunately the call log only shows so many last calls and i don't have it saved. but what i saw was them both logged on around the time that athen said.
Also here: Sintax, Kalus, black cat, townsman, guardsman, large guardsman.
Obvious exits: north, south, east, west
Sintax is searching the area.
[HP=736/MA=143]:n
Kalus moves to attack you!
[HP=728/MA=143]:sd
Kalus critically jumpkicks you for 219 damage!
Kalus critically jumpkicks you for 316 damage!
Kalus critically jumpkicks you for 168 damage!
Kalus jumpkicks you for 62 damage!
Athen drops to the ground!
Kalus jumpkicks you for 65 damage!
You have been killed!
unfortunately the call log only shows so many last calls and i don't have it saved. but what i saw was them both logged on around the time that athen said.
-
the crazy animal
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 5:00 am
Re: warning: dont play here
Syntax, is there anymore to this cap or was it this short?
Well Kalus old boy this does look bad for you, what do you have to say for yourself?
Lets take a look at the cap though because I don’t like to make snap decisions on guilt.
Being that the cap is so short you can't really tell if Athen was hiding in the room or anything else that’s going on in the realm.
Now if you noticed there is a black cat, townsman in the room would make me think he wasn't hiding since they do not wander as much as say the guardsman that are also in the room. Due to the monsters in the room Athen would not have been able to hide or re-sneak if anything had broken his sneak/hide.
Also here: Sintax, Kalus, black cat, townsman, guardsman, large guardsman.
Few more funny things:
Q1: If Kalus’s dupe searched finding Athen and he wasn’t sneaking wouldn't the guards have attacked?
Q2: If Athen had been Sneaking and not hiding and Kalus attacked him what does kalus’s dupe searching have to do with his death other than just being there, since searching wouldn’t have done anything adversely effecting PVP if that were that case?
[HP=736/MA=143]:n
Kalus moves to attack you!
[HP=728/MA=143]:sd
Q3: Hmm looks like Athen had a negative hp tick going on I wonder what that’s from, –8 hp from starting total? This would make me think the cap had been altered since I don’t know of to many effects that cause a –hp to be given with out a message. A –hpregen would be the only one that comes to mind.
Q4: If Athen was sneaking and typed a north movement command wouldn’t it have said attempting to sneak since Kalus hadn’t attacked yet and searching doesn’t break a sneak?
This would make me emphasize
So long as the capture has not been faked or altered then Kalus is guilty of having a dupe on at the same time as his main character and doing commands other than gossips. As far as cheating You can’t tell if Athen walked into the room or if Kalus did, or even if Athen was hiding all we can tell is that he was not sneaking. So as far as I can see Kalus’s dupe had little to do with Athens death however fishy it seems.
The possibility of an altered cap
Now if you look at it as rounds you can notice a few odd things going on.
1. Kalus’s dupe searches, Guards should attack next round if Athen wasn’t sneaking before hiding.
2. Movement command, no attempting to sneak message so now we know he wasn’t sneaking, none of the guards attack or have attacked even though we now know they should have.
3. Kalus engages and Athen is mysteriously missing 8hp, none of the guards in the room have attacked still, and we all know engaging combat breaks a players sneak
4. Athen types a invalid command if the guards had attacked this is where it would surely be here at least.
5. Kalus rounds Athen and Athen drops to the ground at –102 HP.
6. Athens Hp status bracket is missing, and Athens dies.
Athen would be at –102 at the end of Kalus’s round before dieing. So Syntax what is your Death Hp set for in the game? If we know this would allow us to know if Athen had taken any other damage before dieing, as we already know he took a mysterious 8 damage from somewhere. Also what is Athens max hp total? These are the few things we can check to see if the cap has been altered.
The only way I can think of checking if it is totaly fraudulent or not, without more of the cap is to check whether or not Major-mud alphabetize players in order when listing them in a room?
The cap isn’t long enough to prove much else than Kalus and his dupe being in the same room and him searching with his dupe. You really need a longer cap to be able to say that Kalus’s dupe had any effect on Athen dieing. Its a shame we don't have the call log still.
TCA
Well Kalus old boy this does look bad for you, what do you have to say for yourself?
Lets take a look at the cap though because I don’t like to make snap decisions on guilt.
Being that the cap is so short you can't really tell if Athen was hiding in the room or anything else that’s going on in the realm.
Now if you noticed there is a black cat, townsman in the room would make me think he wasn't hiding since they do not wander as much as say the guardsman that are also in the room. Due to the monsters in the room Athen would not have been able to hide or re-sneak if anything had broken his sneak/hide.
Also here: Sintax, Kalus, black cat, townsman, guardsman, large guardsman.
Few more funny things:
Q1: If Kalus’s dupe searched finding Athen and he wasn’t sneaking wouldn't the guards have attacked?
Q2: If Athen had been Sneaking and not hiding and Kalus attacked him what does kalus’s dupe searching have to do with his death other than just being there, since searching wouldn’t have done anything adversely effecting PVP if that were that case?
[HP=736/MA=143]:n
Kalus moves to attack you!
[HP=728/MA=143]:sd
Q3: Hmm looks like Athen had a negative hp tick going on I wonder what that’s from, –8 hp from starting total? This would make me think the cap had been altered since I don’t know of to many effects that cause a –hp to be given with out a message. A –hpregen would be the only one that comes to mind.
Q4: If Athen was sneaking and typed a north movement command wouldn’t it have said attempting to sneak since Kalus hadn’t attacked yet and searching doesn’t break a sneak?
This would make me emphasize
So long as the capture has not been faked or altered then Kalus is guilty of having a dupe on at the same time as his main character and doing commands other than gossips. As far as cheating You can’t tell if Athen walked into the room or if Kalus did, or even if Athen was hiding all we can tell is that he was not sneaking. So as far as I can see Kalus’s dupe had little to do with Athens death however fishy it seems.
The possibility of an altered cap
Now if you look at it as rounds you can notice a few odd things going on.
1. Kalus’s dupe searches, Guards should attack next round if Athen wasn’t sneaking before hiding.
2. Movement command, no attempting to sneak message so now we know he wasn’t sneaking, none of the guards attack or have attacked even though we now know they should have.
3. Kalus engages and Athen is mysteriously missing 8hp, none of the guards in the room have attacked still, and we all know engaging combat breaks a players sneak
4. Athen types a invalid command if the guards had attacked this is where it would surely be here at least.
5. Kalus rounds Athen and Athen drops to the ground at –102 HP.
6. Athens Hp status bracket is missing, and Athens dies.
Athen would be at –102 at the end of Kalus’s round before dieing. So Syntax what is your Death Hp set for in the game? If we know this would allow us to know if Athen had taken any other damage before dieing, as we already know he took a mysterious 8 damage from somewhere. Also what is Athens max hp total? These are the few things we can check to see if the cap has been altered.
The only way I can think of checking if it is totaly fraudulent or not, without more of the cap is to check whether or not Major-mud alphabetize players in order when listing them in a room?
The cap isn’t long enough to prove much else than Kalus and his dupe being in the same room and him searching with his dupe. You really need a longer cap to be able to say that Kalus’s dupe had any effect on Athen dieing. Its a shame we don't have the call log still.
TCA
Re: warning: dont play here
Syntax, is there anymore to this cap or was it this short?
Well Kalus old boy this does look bad for you, what do you have to say for yourself?
Lets take a look at the cap though because I don’t like to make snap decisions on guilt.
Being that the cap is so short you can't really tell if Athen was hiding in the room or anything else that’s going on in the realm.
Now if you noticed there is a black cat, townsman in the room would make me think he wasn't hiding since they do not wander as much as say the guardsman that are also in the room. Due to the monsters in the room Athen would not have been able to hide or re-sneak if anything had broken his sneak/hide.
Also here: Sintax, Kalus, black cat, townsman, guardsman, large guardsman.
Few more funny things:
Q1: If Kalus’s dupe searched finding Athen and he wasn’t sneaking wouldn't the guards have attacked?
Q2: If Athen had been Sneaking and not hiding and Kalus attacked him what does kalus’s dupe searching have to do with his death other than just being there, since searching wouldn’t have done anything adversely effecting PVP if that were that case?
[HP=736/MA=143]:n
Kalus moves to attack you!
[HP=728/MA=143]:sd
Q3: Hmm looks like Athen had a negative hp tick going on I wonder what that’s from, –8 hp from starting total? This would make me think the cap had been altered since I don’t know of to many effects that cause a –hp to be given with out a message. A –hpregen would be the only one that comes to mind.
Q4: If Athen was sneaking and typed a north movement command wouldn’t it have said attempting to sneak since Kalus hadn’t attacked yet and searching doesn’t break a sneak?
This would make me emphasize
So long as the capture has not been faked or altered then Kalus is guilty of having a dupe on at the same time as his main character and doing commands other than gossips. As far as cheating You can’t tell if Athen walked into the room or if Kalus did, or even if Athen was hiding all we can tell is that he was not sneaking. So as far as I can see Kalus’s dupe had little to do with Athens death however fishy it seems.
The possibility of an altered cap
Now if you look at it as rounds you can notice a few odd things going on.
1. Kalus’s dupe searches, Guards should attack next round if Athen wasn’t sneaking before hiding.
2. Movement command, no attempting to sneak message so now we know he wasn’t sneaking, none of the guards attack or have attacked even though we now know they should have.
3. Kalus engages and Athen is mysteriously missing 8hp, none of the guards in the room have attacked still, and we all know engaging combat breaks a players sneak
4. Athen types a invalid command if the guards had attacked this is where it would surely be here at least.
5. Kalus rounds Athen and Athen drops to the ground at –102 HP.
6. Athens Hp status bracket is missing, and Athens dies.
Athen would be at –102 at the end of Kalus’s round before dieing. So Syntax what is your Death Hp set for in the game? If we know this would allow us to know if Athen had taken any other damage before dieing, as we already know he took a mysterious 8 damage from somewhere. Also what is Athens max hp total? These are the few things we can check to see if the cap has been altered.
The only way I can think of checking if it is totaly fraudulent or not, without more of the cap is to check whether or not Major-mud alphabetize players in order when listing them in a room?
The cap isn’t long enough to prove much else than Kalus and his dupe being in the same room and him searching with his dupe. You really need a longer cap to be able to say that Kalus’s dupe had any effect on Athen dieing. Its a shame we don't have the call log still.
TCA
see all this analyzing you are doing? it sucks and it's not something anyone wants to deal with. when i got into work at 8am without even a sip of coffee and someone reports that the person i just warned the night before has cheated, i was pretty much just acting out of frustration. him naming his dupe "Sintax" after i told him he couldn't use someone elses account didn't help my feelings toward him either. i usually never even use caps in my judgement unless i get one from both parties (which both people never seem to have one).
one thing you have to remember is, for one, mud doesn't output its messages in the same order everytime. secondly, since the cap is so short you don't know what would have come before or after. namely when that "sd" command was processed and what message resulted from it as well as what athen was doing. these are all valid questions and ones i would have normally asked. but i was pretty fed up with dealing with kalus and all signs pointed in his direction.
my point is that even if kalus searching had nothing to do with athen dying (if athen wasn't hiding or sneaking), "sintax" still should not have been searching in kalus' room. unless we somehow prove that athen altered the cap by putting that line in there. but as i said, and unfortunately you'll have to take my word on it, those two characters were logged on at the same time. though, i dont see why athen would lie about it because athen didn't even get his items back from all of this.
Well Kalus old boy this does look bad for you, what do you have to say for yourself?
Lets take a look at the cap though because I don’t like to make snap decisions on guilt.
Being that the cap is so short you can't really tell if Athen was hiding in the room or anything else that’s going on in the realm.
Now if you noticed there is a black cat, townsman in the room would make me think he wasn't hiding since they do not wander as much as say the guardsman that are also in the room. Due to the monsters in the room Athen would not have been able to hide or re-sneak if anything had broken his sneak/hide.
Also here: Sintax, Kalus, black cat, townsman, guardsman, large guardsman.
Few more funny things:
Q1: If Kalus’s dupe searched finding Athen and he wasn’t sneaking wouldn't the guards have attacked?
Q2: If Athen had been Sneaking and not hiding and Kalus attacked him what does kalus’s dupe searching have to do with his death other than just being there, since searching wouldn’t have done anything adversely effecting PVP if that were that case?
[HP=736/MA=143]:n
Kalus moves to attack you!
[HP=728/MA=143]:sd
Q3: Hmm looks like Athen had a negative hp tick going on I wonder what that’s from, –8 hp from starting total? This would make me think the cap had been altered since I don’t know of to many effects that cause a –hp to be given with out a message. A –hpregen would be the only one that comes to mind.
Q4: If Athen was sneaking and typed a north movement command wouldn’t it have said attempting to sneak since Kalus hadn’t attacked yet and searching doesn’t break a sneak?
This would make me emphasize
So long as the capture has not been faked or altered then Kalus is guilty of having a dupe on at the same time as his main character and doing commands other than gossips. As far as cheating You can’t tell if Athen walked into the room or if Kalus did, or even if Athen was hiding all we can tell is that he was not sneaking. So as far as I can see Kalus’s dupe had little to do with Athens death however fishy it seems.
The possibility of an altered cap
Now if you look at it as rounds you can notice a few odd things going on.
1. Kalus’s dupe searches, Guards should attack next round if Athen wasn’t sneaking before hiding.
2. Movement command, no attempting to sneak message so now we know he wasn’t sneaking, none of the guards attack or have attacked even though we now know they should have.
3. Kalus engages and Athen is mysteriously missing 8hp, none of the guards in the room have attacked still, and we all know engaging combat breaks a players sneak
4. Athen types a invalid command if the guards had attacked this is where it would surely be here at least.
5. Kalus rounds Athen and Athen drops to the ground at –102 HP.
6. Athens Hp status bracket is missing, and Athens dies.
Athen would be at –102 at the end of Kalus’s round before dieing. So Syntax what is your Death Hp set for in the game? If we know this would allow us to know if Athen had taken any other damage before dieing, as we already know he took a mysterious 8 damage from somewhere. Also what is Athens max hp total? These are the few things we can check to see if the cap has been altered.
The only way I can think of checking if it is totaly fraudulent or not, without more of the cap is to check whether or not Major-mud alphabetize players in order when listing them in a room?
The cap isn’t long enough to prove much else than Kalus and his dupe being in the same room and him searching with his dupe. You really need a longer cap to be able to say that Kalus’s dupe had any effect on Athen dieing. Its a shame we don't have the call log still.
TCA
see all this analyzing you are doing? it sucks and it's not something anyone wants to deal with. when i got into work at 8am without even a sip of coffee and someone reports that the person i just warned the night before has cheated, i was pretty much just acting out of frustration. him naming his dupe "Sintax" after i told him he couldn't use someone elses account didn't help my feelings toward him either. i usually never even use caps in my judgement unless i get one from both parties (which both people never seem to have one).
one thing you have to remember is, for one, mud doesn't output its messages in the same order everytime. secondly, since the cap is so short you don't know what would have come before or after. namely when that "sd" command was processed and what message resulted from it as well as what athen was doing. these are all valid questions and ones i would have normally asked. but i was pretty fed up with dealing with kalus and all signs pointed in his direction.
my point is that even if kalus searching had nothing to do with athen dying (if athen wasn't hiding or sneaking), "sintax" still should not have been searching in kalus' room. unless we somehow prove that athen altered the cap by putting that line in there. but as i said, and unfortunately you'll have to take my word on it, those two characters were logged on at the same time. though, i dont see why athen would lie about it because athen didn't even get his items back from all of this.
-
the crazy animal
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 5:00 am
Re: warning: dont play here
I don’t think the analyzing I did was that bad, It just sucks that there is no clear answer other than something is fishy one way or the other. Your right there is no reason to believe that Athen would lie other than for revenge or anger and hey whats he got to be mad about other than getting rounded and his gear taken. I can take your word as a sysop for what the call log said but it still leaves me wondering about the cap being so short.
Perhaps you should get a copy of dialsoft control v4
Go under Miscellaneous Options
Maximum simultaneous connections from an IP... 1
Exclude this IP from this control: (your IP here)
Then you wouldn’t have to deal with any dupe problems consisting of 2 characters on at the same time from the same IP at all. Not to mention that people could still check in from other computers using dupes too. So the users wouldn't be losing that ability.
TCA
Perhaps you should get a copy of dialsoft control v4
Go under Miscellaneous Options
Maximum simultaneous connections from an IP... 1
Exclude this IP from this control: (your IP here)
Then you wouldn’t have to deal with any dupe problems consisting of 2 characters on at the same time from the same IP at all. Not to mention that people could still check in from other computers using dupes too. So the users wouldn't be losing that ability.
TCA
Re: warning: dont play here
Perhaps you should get a copy of dialsoft control v4
we are already using it. however, we like to allow people to play the other bbs games while still scripting .... maybe we should just stop that
we are already using it. however, we like to allow people to play the other bbs games while still scripting .... maybe we should just stop that
-
the crazy animal
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 5:00 am
Re: warning: dont play here
we are already using it. however, we like to allow people to play the other bbs games while still scripting .... maybe we should just stop that
I hate to say it but its a good idea since you could almost fully stop one method of cheating with a rule that would not need to be enforced by you anymore. It most likely would save you alot of headache and since you don't like dealing with it in the first place thats a double bonus.
BTW they could still log-in from say work and play the other games and check in on mud just not from home so it wouldn't be much of a lose for them.
Why don't you take a poll on the board and see what kind of user response you get and go from there. I'm not saying you have to follow the response but at least you would know if what if any opposision to it you might have.
TCA
I hate to say it but its a good idea since you could almost fully stop one method of cheating with a rule that would not need to be enforced by you anymore. It most likely would save you alot of headache and since you don't like dealing with it in the first place thats a double bonus.
BTW they could still log-in from say work and play the other games and check in on mud just not from home so it wouldn't be much of a lose for them.
Why don't you take a poll on the board and see what kind of user response you get and go from there. I'm not saying you have to follow the response but at least you would know if what if any opposision to it you might have.
TCA
Re: warning: dont play here
I haven't had eny internet access for the last few days so i haven't seen this until now...
The only thing i can say is that cap is as fake as they come. That isn't what happened. I didn't kill Athen in that room, it was about 5 south of ts. The dupe was OFFLINE when Athen was killed. The call logs would have shown this.
I realise that i'm screwed because Syntax can't or wont look at the call logs to prove im right. If you actually TALKED to me before blindly believing everything Athen said to you the truth might have come out. Not that you want the truth to come out anyway (see retarted forum user mud user comment). If you actually care weather or not Athen faked that cap i'm sure you can come up with some way to prove it.
So i end up getting shafted by Athen's fake cap and a Sysop that coulnd't give a toss.
Ok i'm done.
The only thing i can say is that cap is as fake as they come. That isn't what happened. I didn't kill Athen in that room, it was about 5 south of ts. The dupe was OFFLINE when Athen was killed. The call logs would have shown this.
I realise that i'm screwed because Syntax can't or wont look at the call logs to prove im right. If you actually TALKED to me before blindly believing everything Athen said to you the truth might have come out. Not that you want the truth to come out anyway (see retarted forum user mud user comment). If you actually care weather or not Athen faked that cap i'm sure you can come up with some way to prove it.
So i end up getting shafted by Athen's fake cap and a Sysop that coulnd't give a toss.
Ok i'm done.
Re: warning: dont play here
I realise that i'm screwed because Syntax can't or wont look at the call logs to prove im right.can't or wont look at the logs? how many times have i said i did look at the logs and i did find they were both on. the only thing i can't do is re-look at them to post.
If you actually TALKED to me before blindly believing everything Athen said to you the truth might have come out.again, i admitted a few times already that i should have communicated more with other people.
Not that you want the truth to come out anyway (see retarted forum user mud user comment).uh, yeah i do think you are retarted. because you definately broke the rules at least twice and still say you didn't do anything wrong (not including what happened to athen). you contradict yourself. you repeatedly ask questions that have already been answered. and you continue make statements that reasons have already been given for.
If you actually care weather or not Athen faked that cap i'm sure you can come up with some way to prove it. if i didn't care i would have deleted you and this thread and been done with it.
So i end up getting shafted by Athen's fake cap and a Sysop that coulnd't give a toss.or you ended up getting shafted because you cheated twice and pissed me off enough before hand for me to believe someone else over you.
If you actually TALKED to me before blindly believing everything Athen said to you the truth might have come out.again, i admitted a few times already that i should have communicated more with other people.
Not that you want the truth to come out anyway (see retarted forum user mud user comment).uh, yeah i do think you are retarted. because you definately broke the rules at least twice and still say you didn't do anything wrong (not including what happened to athen). you contradict yourself. you repeatedly ask questions that have already been answered. and you continue make statements that reasons have already been given for.
If you actually care weather or not Athen faked that cap i'm sure you can come up with some way to prove it. if i didn't care i would have deleted you and this thread and been done with it.
So i end up getting shafted by Athen's fake cap and a Sysop that coulnd't give a toss.or you ended up getting shafted because you cheated twice and pissed me off enough before hand for me to believe someone else over you.
Re: warning: dont play here
can't or wont look at the logs? how many times have i said i did look at the logs and i did find they were both on. the only thing i can't do is re-look at them to post.
Yes you can, WG makes an ongoing file that stores audit trail records. Last time i cleaned mine it was somewhere in the weight of 200 megs.
Yes you can, WG makes an ongoing file that stores audit trail records. Last time i cleaned mine it was somewhere in the weight of 200 megs.