Unless you enjoy having your character stripped of its items and then given to your enemy without any warning or conversation with the sysop, and suspended for 'duping' when your dupe is level one with no experience or items in accordance to the rules...
Nice work Syntax :naw:
warning: dont play here
Re: warning: dont play here
Unless you enjoy having your character stripped of its items and then given to your enemy without any warning or conversation with the sysop, and suspended for 'duping' when your dupe is level one with no experience or items in accordance to the rules...
Nice work Syntax :naw:
this must be kalus. nice to associate a retarted forum user with a retrated mud user. i first warned you that you couldn't use somebody elses account. so then you made a new one, fine. then you have them both logged on at the same time. then you search with your dupe to find someone hidden in the room and attack them with your other character. so you broke a slew of rules -- logging on with someone elses character, having a dupe logged on at the same time, doing something other than communications with your dupe, and using a dupe to aid in pvp.
:fyou:
Nice work Syntax :naw:
this must be kalus. nice to associate a retarted forum user with a retrated mud user. i first warned you that you couldn't use somebody elses account. so then you made a new one, fine. then you have them both logged on at the same time. then you search with your dupe to find someone hidden in the room and attack them with your other character. so you broke a slew of rules -- logging on with someone elses character, having a dupe logged on at the same time, doing something other than communications with your dupe, and using a dupe to aid in pvp.
:fyou:
Re: warning: dont play here
I never had the dupe logged on at the same time and i never searched with it and then attacked with my other character. All i did was COMMUNICATE.
Re: warning: dont play here
I never had the dupe logged on at the same time and i never searched with it and then attacked with my other character. All i did was COMMUNICATE.
if you say so. 4 other people plus a cap and call log prove otherwise.
if you say so. 4 other people plus a cap and call log prove otherwise.
Re: warning: dont play here
Well they might have been in the realm for all of 3 seconds together thats all. As soon as one came in the other went out.
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the crazy animal
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 5:00 am
Re: warning: dont play here
I think the rules need to be clarified/appened and a standard punishment should posted in effort to end any future problems or complaints such as this. As much as its fun to watch people bitch about stuff like this in the realm we might as well fix the problem and not pull a metro/microsoft by coding it under the table.
Perhaps something like this posted:
Dupe account rules:
1. You are permitted one dupe account.
2. This dupe account is for communications purposes only.
3. This dupe may not leave the Newhaven area.
4. This dupe may not have exp points above 0.
5. This dupe may not hold any items.
Punishment for breaking these rules is X days suspension for each rule broken and the future loss of all dupe privileges. Dupes with greater than 0 exp will be deleted. In cases of PVP interference there is an additional X days of suspension; if the interference results in the victims characters death; 1 life will be subtracted from the attacker and 1 life given to the attacked player. In the case of lost items; no items will be returned however the attackers current inventory will be stripped from them and burned. Repeated violations will result in harsher punishments.
TCA
Perhaps something like this posted:
Dupe account rules:
1. You are permitted one dupe account.
2. This dupe account is for communications purposes only.
3. This dupe may not leave the Newhaven area.
4. This dupe may not have exp points above 0.
5. This dupe may not hold any items.
Punishment for breaking these rules is X days suspension for each rule broken and the future loss of all dupe privileges. Dupes with greater than 0 exp will be deleted. In cases of PVP interference there is an additional X days of suspension; if the interference results in the victims characters death; 1 life will be subtracted from the attacker and 1 life given to the attacked player. In the case of lost items; no items will be returned however the attackers current inventory will be stripped from them and burned. Repeated violations will result in harsher punishments.
TCA
-
artic_3000
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:00 am
Re: warning: dont play here
any bbs where Damage Inc. used to play, but stopped playing, sucks balls.
that rule has helped me so many times over the years, it's ridiculous
that rule has helped me so many times over the years, it's ridiculous
Re: warning: dont play here
I think the rules need to be clarified/appened and a standard punishment should posted in effort to end any future problems or complaints such as this. As much as its fun to watch people bitch about stuff like this in the realm we might as well fix the problem and not pull a metro/microsoft by coding it under the table.
Perhaps something like this posted:
Dupe account rules:
1. You are permitted one dupe account.
2. This dupe account is for communications purposes only.
3. This dupe may not leave the Newhaven area.
4. This dupe may not have exp points above 0.
5. This dupe may not hold any items.
you mean something like this that has been scrolling by during the logon for months?
http://nmr.mudinfo.net/images/off-topic/morbid_rules.jpg
and btw, in your example numbers 3, 4, and 5 are all summed up within #2. communication only is not gainging exp, learning spells, holding items, and definately not searching in rooms with your other character right there and an enemy in the room that you are actively fighting.
Punishment for breaking these rules is X days suspension for each rule broken and the future loss of all dupe privileges. Dupes with greater than 0 exp will be deleted. In cases of PVP interference there is an additional X days of suspension; if the interference results in the victims characters death; 1 life will be subtracted from the attacker and 1 life given to the attacked player. In the case of lost items; no items will be returned however the attackers current inventory will be stripped from them and burned. Repeated violations will result in harsher punishments.
i don't feel i need to post guidlines to the penalties for breaking the rules. i assess each situation individually by evaluating how much damage was actually caused and then decide on an appropriate action. plus, all that leads to is, "hmm, ok i can really piss of so and so or get this item by doing that and only suffer a 2 day suspension." everyone won't always agree with my decisions and that's just a fact of life.
the only real reason people are pissed (from the impression i get) is because kalus happened to have a lot of another user's items on him. sorry that i didn't ask the realm if kalus had anyone elses items before i gave them to the person he illegal killed. but you cannot just ask people whos items someone has and actually expect the whole truth and nothing but the truth. how do i know they aren't lying, how do i know that the item on the character was not actually something he already had or even someone elses item, etc etc etc. if there are items that are so important that it gets your panties all up in a bunch when they are lost, THEN DONT F'N CHEAT AND YOU WONT HAVE A PROBLEM! :wallbang:
Perhaps something like this posted:
Dupe account rules:
1. You are permitted one dupe account.
2. This dupe account is for communications purposes only.
3. This dupe may not leave the Newhaven area.
4. This dupe may not have exp points above 0.
5. This dupe may not hold any items.
you mean something like this that has been scrolling by during the logon for months?
http://nmr.mudinfo.net/images/off-topic/morbid_rules.jpg
and btw, in your example numbers 3, 4, and 5 are all summed up within #2. communication only is not gainging exp, learning spells, holding items, and definately not searching in rooms with your other character right there and an enemy in the room that you are actively fighting.
Punishment for breaking these rules is X days suspension for each rule broken and the future loss of all dupe privileges. Dupes with greater than 0 exp will be deleted. In cases of PVP interference there is an additional X days of suspension; if the interference results in the victims characters death; 1 life will be subtracted from the attacker and 1 life given to the attacked player. In the case of lost items; no items will be returned however the attackers current inventory will be stripped from them and burned. Repeated violations will result in harsher punishments.
i don't feel i need to post guidlines to the penalties for breaking the rules. i assess each situation individually by evaluating how much damage was actually caused and then decide on an appropriate action. plus, all that leads to is, "hmm, ok i can really piss of so and so or get this item by doing that and only suffer a 2 day suspension." everyone won't always agree with my decisions and that's just a fact of life.
the only real reason people are pissed (from the impression i get) is because kalus happened to have a lot of another user's items on him. sorry that i didn't ask the realm if kalus had anyone elses items before i gave them to the person he illegal killed. but you cannot just ask people whos items someone has and actually expect the whole truth and nothing but the truth. how do i know they aren't lying, how do i know that the item on the character was not actually something he already had or even someone elses item, etc etc etc. if there are items that are so important that it gets your panties all up in a bunch when they are lost, THEN DONT F'N CHEAT AND YOU WONT HAVE A PROBLEM! :wallbang:
Re: warning: dont play here
THEN DONT F'N CHEAT AND YOU WONT HAVE A PROBLEM! :wallbang:
Amen!
Amen!
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the crazy animal
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 5:00 am
Re: warning: dont play here
Ok first you really did miss my point.
I really was not criticizing your judgment in any way. The only thing I was trying to do was come up with a means to not have to read screens full of bitching and moaning again because someone thought a sysop’s judgment was unfair after the fact. Now, I personally don’t really care about the items or if you made a poor decision or not. All I am say is that there is a problem with the rules and you should fix it so it doesn’t happen again. Now I hope what I will say below doesn’t offend you to much but I’m going to lay into you like a wild wombat just because you came off a little off key and just because I like you I’ll try to be as nice as I can in the process.
To start off:
My examples 3,4,5 are not summed up in #2 of your rules. Number 3 is the rule that you must be referring to; however, rules should be clear and concise as well as not having room for misreading it. Your rule permits communication which would allow a character to walk to the bank in-order to sit and chat with people. Since they did that in-order to communicate they wouldn’t be breaking a rule hence a loop hole has formed. Since 3 is no longer really summed up in two since a player can walk to the bank to talk he now has the ability to walk into town and interfere with PVP and get into trouble.
So you could simply take my example rule 3 and insert it into yours and be better off for it. As per the other rules I based them off of what you had posted so don’t jump down my throat just because you assume too much. Although I know I can’t expect to much from someone that can’t remember which of there own rules I summed up even though they just went to the trouble of getting a screen cap of it. :P
Now the problem with kalus was that he had a poor understanding of the rules or a very good one. As I pointed out the loop hole in your rules kalus seems to believe he could walk around, search, and do what ever so long as he had 0 exp and didn’t have any items and communicated some while doing it. See the funny thing is that he actually has a valid point as your wording only to communicate doesn’t say were they communicate or interact with in the realm so long as they follow the other rules as i pointed out above.
Secondly Why don't you think about the fact that most if not all the players on morbid script 24/7 and have auto log-ins. so the fact of having it scroll by the screen while MegaMud logs-on your character on while your still sleeping in the morning doesn't mean your going to read them or even see them with the chance of reading them other than on a rare occasion or two. So having them posted somewhere such as in these forums would solve that issue. So thank you for posting your cap.
A few simple points to make about rules:
1. You can't expect rules that aren't read to be followed.
2. When you posting rules in places that aren't seen other than manually logging on it means they probably will not be read.
3. Anywhere you can post the rules that can be accessed even by a suspended person is a good place to post them.
4. Rules need to be clear and concise and free from loop holes that can be abused you should know that you have programming experience.[B\]
[B]5. Rules don't mean shit if they aren't backed up by known punishments.
6. If you think some one will still break a rule with a known punishment, then that punishment is not harsh enough!
As I posted in my example under punishments one of the punishments for breaking the rules is loss of future dupe privileges. Now that means if a dupe is caught out of the Newhaven area you can suspend they clear and simple after their suspension they can’t log in with a dupe again. Why is this rule a good thing? It’s good because if a player will break a small rule they are more likely to break a larger rule hence stopping the future dupe rule breaking by that player. If they then continue to break dupe rules you just punish them harder such as banning them from playing mud all together.
Don’t get me wrong assessing incidents is a good thing but posting your starting punishments makes a point of saying you will be punished to people that would cheat. Also stating your rules also makes you the sysop look less at fault while dishing out punishments for sticky situations such as this. Which if the rules and punishments were known and posted in easy to get locations such as a sticky forum thread like your mmud explorer data file you could have simply said the punishments are posted and all I did was follow through with it.
Yes most of the reason people were mad about this is the fact about the items and yes you are correct you can't expect people to tell the whole truth about whose items they were and to whom they belonged. So what do you do?
You can do a few things of which I will now pick on you for since you felt the need to pick at each thing I said ;)
1. You can do what you did which was fundamentally flawed not only because you had no proof of who’s items where who's or if that player still held any of the others lost inventory. This in my opinion this promotes whining since the attacked player could have easily sucked it up and said just give me a weapon and I’ll kill that bitch later and get my stuff back just suspend his cheating ass and I’ll do the rest.
2. You could have removed the cheaters mud access pending the investigation and then asked the two parties involved a few simple questions. Such as what items did you lose and checked it against the cheaters inventory. Then ask the cheater what items were on the ground after the attacked person died. This would give you a very fair idea of what items may or may not have been lost. To follow up you ask the cheater that the attacked claims to have lost these items. Now you have some information to make an objective and fair judgment on what items to take and give to the player that was attacked at the end of the item problem you issue what ever suspension need to be given. The only problem with this solution is it takes time to sort out the facts but it’s a very fair method of doing it.
3. Now since time is money and you don’t want to waste a lot of your time. You just take a hard line stance of I’m not going to reward cheaters or whiners and post a punishment that is harsh enough to deter most people from doing it. In the case of items; normally it is best to let players themselves to sort it out or to just burn the cheaters inventory unless the attacked player wishes to try to recover them their selves. Both parties lose out on something and because of that they won't bother you as much when things like that happen.
Now as for your point on punishments we play on an edited bored which gives you the sysop a lot more power than on a non edited board. If you don’t think so then you’re just not being creative enough. If you don't think a number of days worth of suspension will keep a person from cheating then you need to come up with something else. How about this punishment subtract 20% of the cheaters total exp, and subtract any levels that, that player would no longer qualify for and give them enough evil points to be max fiend and then at the end of there suspension temporarily lower the amount of evil points redeemed in a day and tell the realm its all the cheaters fault. Beyond that if you can’t keep a person from cheating when you hatch them breaking a rule post proof and just delete their character.
[B]I don’t cheat and I still have a problem, be a good sysop and fix your dam rules![B/]
I think maybe I was too nice.
TCA
I really was not criticizing your judgment in any way. The only thing I was trying to do was come up with a means to not have to read screens full of bitching and moaning again because someone thought a sysop’s judgment was unfair after the fact. Now, I personally don’t really care about the items or if you made a poor decision or not. All I am say is that there is a problem with the rules and you should fix it so it doesn’t happen again. Now I hope what I will say below doesn’t offend you to much but I’m going to lay into you like a wild wombat just because you came off a little off key and just because I like you I’ll try to be as nice as I can in the process.
To start off:
My examples 3,4,5 are not summed up in #2 of your rules. Number 3 is the rule that you must be referring to; however, rules should be clear and concise as well as not having room for misreading it. Your rule permits communication which would allow a character to walk to the bank in-order to sit and chat with people. Since they did that in-order to communicate they wouldn’t be breaking a rule hence a loop hole has formed. Since 3 is no longer really summed up in two since a player can walk to the bank to talk he now has the ability to walk into town and interfere with PVP and get into trouble.
So you could simply take my example rule 3 and insert it into yours and be better off for it. As per the other rules I based them off of what you had posted so don’t jump down my throat just because you assume too much. Although I know I can’t expect to much from someone that can’t remember which of there own rules I summed up even though they just went to the trouble of getting a screen cap of it. :P
Now the problem with kalus was that he had a poor understanding of the rules or a very good one. As I pointed out the loop hole in your rules kalus seems to believe he could walk around, search, and do what ever so long as he had 0 exp and didn’t have any items and communicated some while doing it. See the funny thing is that he actually has a valid point as your wording only to communicate doesn’t say were they communicate or interact with in the realm so long as they follow the other rules as i pointed out above.
Secondly Why don't you think about the fact that most if not all the players on morbid script 24/7 and have auto log-ins. so the fact of having it scroll by the screen while MegaMud logs-on your character on while your still sleeping in the morning doesn't mean your going to read them or even see them with the chance of reading them other than on a rare occasion or two. So having them posted somewhere such as in these forums would solve that issue. So thank you for posting your cap.
A few simple points to make about rules:
1. You can't expect rules that aren't read to be followed.
2. When you posting rules in places that aren't seen other than manually logging on it means they probably will not be read.
3. Anywhere you can post the rules that can be accessed even by a suspended person is a good place to post them.
4. Rules need to be clear and concise and free from loop holes that can be abused you should know that you have programming experience.[B\]
[B]5. Rules don't mean shit if they aren't backed up by known punishments.
6. If you think some one will still break a rule with a known punishment, then that punishment is not harsh enough!
As I posted in my example under punishments one of the punishments for breaking the rules is loss of future dupe privileges. Now that means if a dupe is caught out of the Newhaven area you can suspend they clear and simple after their suspension they can’t log in with a dupe again. Why is this rule a good thing? It’s good because if a player will break a small rule they are more likely to break a larger rule hence stopping the future dupe rule breaking by that player. If they then continue to break dupe rules you just punish them harder such as banning them from playing mud all together.
Don’t get me wrong assessing incidents is a good thing but posting your starting punishments makes a point of saying you will be punished to people that would cheat. Also stating your rules also makes you the sysop look less at fault while dishing out punishments for sticky situations such as this. Which if the rules and punishments were known and posted in easy to get locations such as a sticky forum thread like your mmud explorer data file you could have simply said the punishments are posted and all I did was follow through with it.
Yes most of the reason people were mad about this is the fact about the items and yes you are correct you can't expect people to tell the whole truth about whose items they were and to whom they belonged. So what do you do?
You can do a few things of which I will now pick on you for since you felt the need to pick at each thing I said ;)
1. You can do what you did which was fundamentally flawed not only because you had no proof of who’s items where who's or if that player still held any of the others lost inventory. This in my opinion this promotes whining since the attacked player could have easily sucked it up and said just give me a weapon and I’ll kill that bitch later and get my stuff back just suspend his cheating ass and I’ll do the rest.
2. You could have removed the cheaters mud access pending the investigation and then asked the two parties involved a few simple questions. Such as what items did you lose and checked it against the cheaters inventory. Then ask the cheater what items were on the ground after the attacked person died. This would give you a very fair idea of what items may or may not have been lost. To follow up you ask the cheater that the attacked claims to have lost these items. Now you have some information to make an objective and fair judgment on what items to take and give to the player that was attacked at the end of the item problem you issue what ever suspension need to be given. The only problem with this solution is it takes time to sort out the facts but it’s a very fair method of doing it.
3. Now since time is money and you don’t want to waste a lot of your time. You just take a hard line stance of I’m not going to reward cheaters or whiners and post a punishment that is harsh enough to deter most people from doing it. In the case of items; normally it is best to let players themselves to sort it out or to just burn the cheaters inventory unless the attacked player wishes to try to recover them their selves. Both parties lose out on something and because of that they won't bother you as much when things like that happen.
Now as for your point on punishments we play on an edited bored which gives you the sysop a lot more power than on a non edited board. If you don’t think so then you’re just not being creative enough. If you don't think a number of days worth of suspension will keep a person from cheating then you need to come up with something else. How about this punishment subtract 20% of the cheaters total exp, and subtract any levels that, that player would no longer qualify for and give them enough evil points to be max fiend and then at the end of there suspension temporarily lower the amount of evil points redeemed in a day and tell the realm its all the cheaters fault. Beyond that if you can’t keep a person from cheating when you hatch them breaking a rule post proof and just delete their character.
[B]I don’t cheat and I still have a problem, be a good sysop and fix your dam rules![B/]
I think maybe I was too nice.
TCA