Post War Iraq [Archive] - ForumsHQ

[syntax53]

i have a question ... why are you all saying this is all because of Bush and his motives? Of course, there wouldn't be war if he didn't say so, but Bush can't exactly convince thousands of intellegence officers that war is necessary. It's not like Bush is down in the bunker searching satellite's for WMD and claiming he's spotted it. There are thousands of people that work on this stuff and they all must have been convinced that what they saw and learned is hardcore evedence or else the intellegence wouldn't have made it from the ROTC guy that first found it or listened to a phone tap all the way up to the big guys.



I find it very hard to believe that people like Rumsfeld and Powell can stand up and plea their argument as well as they do and with as much heart as they do to people if they truely truely didn't believe they were doing the right thing. When I listen to Bush stand up and talk to the world, it doesn't convince me at all, I don't feel that what he's saying is coming from his heart because it's all scrtipted and someone else wrote it. But people like Rumsfeld who hold press conferences and get bagered by the media --if you watch and really listen to what they're saying, they really really believe that were they're saying is the truth.



i only used two people as examples, but there are many that I feel the same way towards. even listening to the live reports from kuwait every morning and the way they described some of the brutality they witnessed, was just heartcrushing.



basicly my point is that as a human being, politics aside, relegion aside, i think what we did was the right thing and the only thing left to do. _iraq_ wouldn't have attacked us, but terrorists from there or even just buy their weapons from there would. even if you don't think that would have happened and all the talk about that is false, the way the country was run needed to be stopped before it became worse.



-syn

[BlackHaze]

:wstupid:

[Reckless]

why did the top security analyst leave if Bush listened to all the advice? The Bush Administration fabricated so many "facts" to justify the war that it's starting to bite him in the ass. As for Iran, we're violating international law by interfering with a sovereign nation, as we did in Iraq. Bush cares nothing about Democracy, he wanted an excuse to send the military halfway around the world to flex his power.





Does this search for WMD's remind anyone else of the line "Comb the desert" from Spaceballs?

[syntax53]

Originally posted by BlackHaze

:wstupid:



thanks.

[Voodoo_Chile]

The fact is, President Bush, the man you're equating as nothing more than a ruthless dictator, has brought change (for the better) to troubled places in the world. In Iraq and Afghanistan, and of course, in Iran. The youth in Iran are following President Bush's lead, and standing up to the mullahs that have persecuted them for so long. They see freedom being given to their neighbors in Iraq, and now they want a taste of it too. The youth in Iran will bring about change in that country. And whether you question Bush's motives for going to war in Iraq, you can't dispute the fact that his war is bringing change to the good people of Iran.



Keep in mind, your opinions are all duely noted, and I sincerely respect them, so from here on out consider me out of this debate.

[Reckless]

dude, keep wearing your bib and getting fed bullshit. The students in Iran are being manipulated into doing this. How is that any better than what the elder mullah's are doing? Interfering with other countries who "he doesn't like" isn't something a president should be doing. You act like this moron in office cares about the people of Iraq, Afghanistan, or Iran, he doesn't even care about his own people.

[Khaled]

Actually, Syntax, those "thousands of officers" dont have a say in the matter. One of the cornerstones of the American democratic system is that the military is totaly and completely apolitical--that doesn't mean that the officers didn't have thier opinions, its just means that they required to do what their commander-in-chief tells them to do. If the president ordered it, and congress apporoved, the military would invade Canada, though everyone in it would realize how stupid a move it was. I know a lot of servicepeople--I live on an airbase for Allah's sake--and I can tell you that most of them think Bush is at best a little slow. Some think he's a monster who is responsible for thousands of deaths, but have you heard one of them say it? No, because of the way the system works. Congress, and only Congress, had the power to veto Bush's war. As an interesting aside, Congress (ideally) represents the collective will of the American people, so the question of how the war was sold to the Americans is of utmost importance. Sure Hussein was a big bad boogie man. There are dozens out there that we support, like the Chinese oligarchy, who runs their students over with tanks and thousands we hate but do nothing to stop, like Gadhafi (who ATE HIS WIFE, among others). Him being a "bad guy" doesn't justify a war. The WMD was what was supposed to do that.

[Khaled]

And as for the manipulation of Iranian students--pshaw (I love typing that). The Persian culture is deeper and more complex than most. The Islamic Revolution in '78-79 was due not for the Persian love of Arabic Islam, but because it was a real means from the foreign influence Persia was then trapped in. The Persians have enjoyed their own far more relaxed form of Islam for over a thousand years. The Iraq-Iran war deepened a barrier of mistrust and hatred between the two peoples in the process of taking 1.4 million of their lives. The Ba'athist gov't, headed by Hussein launched that war. With the fall of that gov't pressures are being released, including criticisms of the clerical gov't's policy. These protests in Iran are not the product of outside manipulation but of decades of subtle polical, economic, social, and religious trends. Persians are far more proud, complex, and independant than you give them credit for Reck. While I dont doubt that there isn't a gov't out there that wouldn't like to "manipulate" them and Iran's future through them, its not not a reality.

[Delete]

i have a few questions...



1) During the Iraq-Iran war when we SUPPORTED Hussein, didn't we teach him how to make WMD? Isn't that our proof that he had them? Isn't that the proof he FAILED to show us (How they were destroyed I mean) that caused the war?



2) Is gas still a buck and a half?



3) Does the deaths of 50,000 taliwhackers have anything to do with your life?



4) Didn't Sadaam and Oday and Ugay or whatever his sons names are steal $900 mil from the Iraqi people before they left?? They were good for the Iraqi people???



I say its time now to tell Israel "You're on you're own buddy" and let them blow up anybody who starts shit with them. Fuck Arafat, fuck bin Laden, fuck the other arab guy with a goofy name. Fuck em all! I say sell them all the weapons that we seize and let them shoot each other until theres 9 or 10 left. Then we send in special forces to kill them. This will solve a lot of problems..

#1 - We won't lose 1 life doing it

#2 - We will make money off of illegalm weapons sales

#3 - There will be oil for us to take

#4 - Because of #3, your "anti-war" speeches will change to "wow, I know have $10 extra dollars to buy my peacepipe crack now that master emperor president george bush made gas $.68 a gallon"

#5 - I won't have to make anymore posts like this

[Reckless]

Originally posted by Khaled

Actually, Syntax, those "thousands of officers" dont have a say in the matter. One of the cornerstones of the American democratic system is that the military is totaly and completely apolitical--that doesn't mean that the officers didn't have thier opinions, its just means that they required to do what their commander-in-chief tells them to do. If the president ordered it, and congress apporoved, the military would invade Canada, though everyone in it would realize how stupid a move it was. I know a lot of servicepeople--I live on an airbase for Allah's sake--and I can tell you that most of them think Bush is at best a little slow. Some think he's a monster who is responsible for thousands of deaths, but have you heard one of them say it? No, because of the way the system works. Congress, and only Congress, had the power to veto Bush's war. As an interesting aside, Congress (ideally) represents the collective will of the American people, so the question of how the war was sold to the Americans is of utmost importance. Sure Hussein was a big bad boogie man. There are dozens out there that we support, like the Chinese oligarchy, who runs their students over with tanks and thousands we hate but do nothing to stop, like Gadhafi (who ATE HIS WIFE, among others). Him being a "bad guy" doesn't justify a war. The WMD was what was supposed to do that.



Within reason. See UCMJ for unlawful orders.