I'd like to know the ratio for protevil/protgood when it comes to AC.
The level 5 spells of protection from evil/good have a value of 10. And 10 ac in a spell at that level seems a bit overpowered, but to put it in the ratio of 10:1, 1 ac is a waste of mana, IMO.
I'm curious as to what the ratio is, or if protgood/evil even has the same influence as AC when fighting those alignments.
Also on a side note, does the protevil/good bonus work in pvp?
Thanks in advance.
protevil & protgood
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Demosthenes
Re: protevil & protgood
i really don't know for certain, as secondary AV/DV modifiers aren't laid out in the debugger, but my guess would be that the prot value is directly subtracted from the AV of any attackers of the correct align, thus giving -10 accuracy to evil aligned monsters/players attacking someone with prev cast on them. as i said, this is a guess, you'd need to ask locke or someone else who has a decompiler to be absolutely certain... or run some extended testing on it, i suppose.
edit: i can't spell.
edit: i can't spell.
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Nostalgia
Re: protevil & protgood
Yeah, the accuracy theory crossed my mind shortly after posting. It'd seem to make sense, and would be fairly balanced.
Just didn't want to make any of the new items/spells horribly overbalanced due to an ability I wasn't totally familiar with.
Just didn't want to make any of the new items/spells horribly overbalanced due to an ability I wasn't totally familiar with.
Re: protevil & protgood
From: http://www.metrobbs.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=news;action=display;num=1075291860;start=
If you're frontrank you get a +15 bonus to accuracy and -10 to your secondary defense (if you're jumpkicking you only get the -10 to secondary defense, you do not get the accuracy bonus). If you're backrank you get a -10 penalty to accuracy and a +15 bonus to your secondary defense (if you're jumpkicking you only get the +15 to secondary defense, you do not get the accuracy penalty).
Midrank neither penalizes or provides a bonus. "Secondary defense" is the same defense Protection from Good and Protection from Evil provide. The "Shadow Stealth" ability (which used to be in the Mage spell shadowform) also grants a +10 bonus to secondary defense.
...
Well, here's the disassembly of the section I believe points to secondary defense being identical to regular AC--
loc_0_42B64D:
mov eax, [ebx+attackvalues.accuracy]
add eax, [ebp+accuracymod]
mov edx, [ebx+attackvalues.accuracy]
add edx, [ebp+accuracymod]
imul edx
mov ecx, 14
cdq
idiv ecx
mov ecx, 10
cdq
idiv ecx
mov ecx, eax
test ecx, ecx
jz short loc_0_42B689
mov eax, [esi+attackvalues.ac]
add eax, [esi+attackvalues.secondarydefense]
mov edx, [esi+attackvalues.ac]
add edx, [esi+attackvalues.secondarydefense]
imul edx
cdq
idiv ecx
mov ecx, 100
sub ecx, eax
jmp short loc_0_42B68E
My interpretation of this comes out as--
It takes the final accuracy value and multiplies it by itself (after adjusting it with accuracymod-- that appears to be a modifier based on the kind of attack you're engaged in-- regular melee has this set to 0, but bash has it set to -15 and smash has it set to -25). It then divides the result of that by 14, then the result of that by 10. It then tests for zero, if it's zero it jumps to code (outside what I've shown above) that sets the value to 5.
Now it takes the AC and secondary defense values, sums them, and multiplies the result by itself (hence the two loads and two add's). It then takes the result from our previous calculations (previous paragraph) and divides the multiplied AC + secondary defense by the previous result. Finally it takes this final value and subtracts it from 100.
Anyways, I just wanted to show that I'm not pulling the secondary defense + AC idea out of thin air. :P
Well, I haven't dug deep yet, but the values you can get for prev/prgd are all *very* low it seems. That leaves shadow stealth items (which don't stack, you just get a single +10 bonus if you have a shadow stealth ability at all from any source), of which I think the embroidered black robes are it (shadowform doesn't use the old shadow stealth ability anymore, it uses a shadowform ability that was introduced around 1.1w). So the usefulness there is also limited.
In other words, we'll never be able to test this until a bunch of godly items with secondary defense bonuses are added (which since shadow stealth adds a static amount, the only way you'd be able to test large values is with an item that had huge amounts of prev/prgd on them).
If you're frontrank you get a +15 bonus to accuracy and -10 to your secondary defense (if you're jumpkicking you only get the -10 to secondary defense, you do not get the accuracy bonus). If you're backrank you get a -10 penalty to accuracy and a +15 bonus to your secondary defense (if you're jumpkicking you only get the +15 to secondary defense, you do not get the accuracy penalty).
Midrank neither penalizes or provides a bonus. "Secondary defense" is the same defense Protection from Good and Protection from Evil provide. The "Shadow Stealth" ability (which used to be in the Mage spell shadowform) also grants a +10 bonus to secondary defense.
...
Well, here's the disassembly of the section I believe points to secondary defense being identical to regular AC--
loc_0_42B64D:
mov eax, [ebx+attackvalues.accuracy]
add eax, [ebp+accuracymod]
mov edx, [ebx+attackvalues.accuracy]
add edx, [ebp+accuracymod]
imul edx
mov ecx, 14
cdq
idiv ecx
mov ecx, 10
cdq
idiv ecx
mov ecx, eax
test ecx, ecx
jz short loc_0_42B689
mov eax, [esi+attackvalues.ac]
add eax, [esi+attackvalues.secondarydefense]
mov edx, [esi+attackvalues.ac]
add edx, [esi+attackvalues.secondarydefense]
imul edx
cdq
idiv ecx
mov ecx, 100
sub ecx, eax
jmp short loc_0_42B68E
My interpretation of this comes out as--
It takes the final accuracy value and multiplies it by itself (after adjusting it with accuracymod-- that appears to be a modifier based on the kind of attack you're engaged in-- regular melee has this set to 0, but bash has it set to -15 and smash has it set to -25). It then divides the result of that by 14, then the result of that by 10. It then tests for zero, if it's zero it jumps to code (outside what I've shown above) that sets the value to 5.
Now it takes the AC and secondary defense values, sums them, and multiplies the result by itself (hence the two loads and two add's). It then takes the result from our previous calculations (previous paragraph) and divides the multiplied AC + secondary defense by the previous result. Finally it takes this final value and subtracts it from 100.
Anyways, I just wanted to show that I'm not pulling the secondary defense + AC idea out of thin air. :P
Well, I haven't dug deep yet, but the values you can get for prev/prgd are all *very* low it seems. That leaves shadow stealth items (which don't stack, you just get a single +10 bonus if you have a shadow stealth ability at all from any source), of which I think the embroidered black robes are it (shadowform doesn't use the old shadow stealth ability anymore, it uses a shadowform ability that was introduced around 1.1w). So the usefulness there is also limited.
In other words, we'll never be able to test this until a bunch of godly items with secondary defense bonuses are added (which since shadow stealth adds a static amount, the only way you'd be able to test large values is with an item that had huge amounts of prev/prgd on them).
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Nostalgia
Re: protevil & protgood
:O
Well, I doubt 30 protgood/evil counts as that much then. Thanks. :D
Well, I doubt 30 protgood/evil counts as that much then. Thanks. :D
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Demosthenes
Re: protevil & protgood
did you actually understand all that? cause i'm not entirely certain i did, if you want to elaborate on what you think it means i'll do some testing i suppose. :p
eg:
Well, here's the disassembly of the section I believe points to secondary defense being identical to regular AC--
Well, I haven't dug deep yet, but the values you can get for prev/prgd are all *very* low it seems.
In other words, we'll never be able to test this until a bunch of godly items with secondary defense bonuses are added (which since shadow stealth adds a static amount, the only way you'd be able to test large values is with an item that had huge amounts of prev/prgd on them).
this seems to be saying that secondary defense and AC are calculated with equal values...
and then later goes on to say that current values of secondary defense (+10 prgd/prev) are so low they're negligible. does this make sense to anyone?
eg:
Well, here's the disassembly of the section I believe points to secondary defense being identical to regular AC--
Well, I haven't dug deep yet, but the values you can get for prev/prgd are all *very* low it seems.
In other words, we'll never be able to test this until a bunch of godly items with secondary defense bonuses are added (which since shadow stealth adds a static amount, the only way you'd be able to test large values is with an item that had huge amounts of prev/prgd on them).
this seems to be saying that secondary defense and AC are calculated with equal values...
and then later goes on to say that current values of secondary defense (+10 prgd/prev) are so low they're negligible. does this make sense to anyone?
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Locke Cole
- Posts: 142
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:00 am
Re: protevil & protgood
this seems to be saying that secondary defense and AC are calculated with equal values...
It doesn't seem to.. it IS saying that.
and then later goes on to say that current values of secondary defense (+10 prgd/prev) are so low they're negligible. does this make sense to anyone?
It does to me. :P The issue I was trying to address was that there are so few items that add to prev/prgd in the game right now that there's no way to really test it. It helps to read the original MudCentral thread where I discussed this too-- it adds a bit of context.
It doesn't seem to.. it IS saying that.
and then later goes on to say that current values of secondary defense (+10 prgd/prev) are so low they're negligible. does this make sense to anyone?
It does to me. :P The issue I was trying to address was that there are so few items that add to prev/prgd in the game right now that there's no way to really test it. It helps to read the original MudCentral thread where I discussed this too-- it adds a bit of context.
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Demosthenes
Re: protevil & protgood
hrm, ok, i guess we just consider different amounts of AC to be negligible, as i wouldn't really call 10 ac a very small bonus in most cases. :p definitely true on the number of (stackable) items that give prot though, there's basically just goodaligned weapons iirc. thanks for clearing that up.