IMO the reason scripting is appealing is because it allows those with demanding lives who may not be able to devote as much at-keys time to progress their character just as fast as someone with no job or a lot of free time on their hands. i think scripting is essential to majormud's survival at this point.
I agree. Its also one of the biggest issues in mmorpgs. Not scripting, but the lack there-of for that exact reason. People with no lives play 20hrs a day and 'casual' gamers with lives only play 2hrs a day. So, the 20hrs a day people do everything first, max their level, get board, so they start killing and harassing people out of boredom. Or start complaining.
:naw: :nono:
Brainstorm a New Mud? [Archive] - ForumsHQ
Re: Brainstorm a New Mud? [Archive] - ForumsHQ
>>>Your points 1 and 2 (time / boredom) are basically the same point, and it's a moot one.
Nah, let me see if I can show you what I meant:
>>>What I'm saying is, there's tons of internet MUDs (yes, hack-and-slash MUDs, -not- RP-driven MUSHes) who have a very active player base without allowing scripting.
Yes, but very few that offer so much less over what was before. MajorMud games, even edited ones to be found in these forums, basicly are slightly adapted vers. of the same O L D game.
"An old game with a few new areas and abilities changed, perhaps lowered exp, on your part is not "creation enough" from you for what you seem to want from players."
Sorry the "your part" thing was not ment towards you personally, but rather generally to builders that think along the lines you started to, for you to see.
The point is if one does not provide "creation enough" why would they imagine, ever, that players would go "backward" in the same game ie: no scripts/mega blah blah blah... Hell there are even those that will NOT play without sysop gotos now. They won't, because they don't have to.
You suggest requiring greater time (point one) and offering no more, or little more to see that I haven't or that has importance to the game on my way to my final destination (point two). I am not interested in playing 20hrs a day like I did when Muds were built by top coders as learning experiences in a new "science" as opposed to "area editors" we have mainly today. If one wants that much of my time as a player they MUST bring much much more to the table.
I mainly come from those others muds you speak off, I coded on them for a long long time and you over simplify: for every successfull one that does draw and hold a userbase there are thousands that fold do to lack of interest. Most that are big now built that user base over years if not decades, and most of the coders code old style in part, for themselves, as a further learning experience.
>>>Your point 3 (bother + stress) just really baffles me. So far you've pretty much described MajorMud as being stressful, bothersome, time-intensive, and tedious... that's not sounding very appealing!
You are kind of missing the point. Life in general is that way too unless one takes measures to personally overcome. One avoids walking long distance for example with beasts of burden, the creation of cars, planes, trains etc. I do still play by hand on a handfull of nonmajormud muds, still offer coding help to a few old friends that still create them. But one has to have something to offer what ever base a mud is built on. If people do not want to play by hand so what..."If you build it, they will come"... well eventually, at least where it worth seeing. If noone wants to play by hand (what seems to be your arguement) the fault is with the creator, not the userbase or potiental userbase.
Miles is a good example. He did everything wrong *grin* but he had the biggest userbase, for a while, out of all the muds in the forums. He pushed the envolope to try to give something, I am not sure he even knew what that 'something' was but it was different enough from what people were used to with majormud, as a base, that they came to see it for themselves. He gave something for the time commitment required, something new to experience.
Can he do it again with a no scripting or limited scripting majormud? Doubtfull, the task is a larger one it is an asking players to go back and forget a usefull tool. Basicly Syntax is correct, mega allows majormud to keep going. To succeed in a scriptfree majormud with a large following someone like Miles would have to do so much work it is not going to be majormud anymore. They would be FAR FAR better off changing code base so as to have source code access for the amount of change it would require.
MegaMud does exist, why fight it? Create with all the tools people are used to in mind. Your argument seems as silly as arguing how much better all things would be if went back to a simpler life without cars, or even horses... Sure there was good but lets not forget all that was not quite so good, famine, plagues, deaths in the thousands from exposure etc..
Megamud is just the 'poor mans' script, it requires little skill or scripting experience. There is not a single mud, whatever the code base, that completely eliminates scripting, there are scripting on all worth playing, even where it is not the creators wish, Hell I had scripts 10yrs ago while playing that 'talked' to the imps so they would not delete my characters for scripting. Even a few female scripts that would auto flirt for favors and eq from the creators *smirk* only cheating if you get caught, the game is in the code, not mortal like rules beyond what a creator can make not possible through code. If it is possible in a created world it is fair game for play.
In every case where the scripter is successfull, they are the top people in the realm. It has been part of the game from the start... out wit, using the creators own "new" laws of physics, the mobs, other players, even the creators themselves where one can. Scripting, faster with key strokes in a hand played Pkill chase, better eq than the one you just killed... it is all the same... go with your skills and overcome to run with the top dogs. Fairness is both players drop at the same instant because balance in all things is perfect? Fuck that! You have no game...
Now you are going to argue further I really didn't answer your question right? I did but, the problem is you really do not want it answered *grin* You like to play by hand... so do it!!! No one is stopping you, you DO NOT have to use scripts or megamud, every mud works just as well without them, just for you. If the real argument is most others are "as good", or "better than you" (be you creator or player) because they do use them, you, not they, are the lazy one, you failed to expand in your role and 'one up them' like the "old days" to gain advantage even beyond the basic scripting.
Nah, let me see if I can show you what I meant:
>>>What I'm saying is, there's tons of internet MUDs (yes, hack-and-slash MUDs, -not- RP-driven MUSHes) who have a very active player base without allowing scripting.
Yes, but very few that offer so much less over what was before. MajorMud games, even edited ones to be found in these forums, basicly are slightly adapted vers. of the same O L D game.
"An old game with a few new areas and abilities changed, perhaps lowered exp, on your part is not "creation enough" from you for what you seem to want from players."
Sorry the "your part" thing was not ment towards you personally, but rather generally to builders that think along the lines you started to, for you to see.
The point is if one does not provide "creation enough" why would they imagine, ever, that players would go "backward" in the same game ie: no scripts/mega blah blah blah... Hell there are even those that will NOT play without sysop gotos now. They won't, because they don't have to.
You suggest requiring greater time (point one) and offering no more, or little more to see that I haven't or that has importance to the game on my way to my final destination (point two). I am not interested in playing 20hrs a day like I did when Muds were built by top coders as learning experiences in a new "science" as opposed to "area editors" we have mainly today. If one wants that much of my time as a player they MUST bring much much more to the table.
I mainly come from those others muds you speak off, I coded on them for a long long time and you over simplify: for every successfull one that does draw and hold a userbase there are thousands that fold do to lack of interest. Most that are big now built that user base over years if not decades, and most of the coders code old style in part, for themselves, as a further learning experience.
>>>Your point 3 (bother + stress) just really baffles me. So far you've pretty much described MajorMud as being stressful, bothersome, time-intensive, and tedious... that's not sounding very appealing!
You are kind of missing the point. Life in general is that way too unless one takes measures to personally overcome. One avoids walking long distance for example with beasts of burden, the creation of cars, planes, trains etc. I do still play by hand on a handfull of nonmajormud muds, still offer coding help to a few old friends that still create them. But one has to have something to offer what ever base a mud is built on. If people do not want to play by hand so what..."If you build it, they will come"... well eventually, at least where it worth seeing. If noone wants to play by hand (what seems to be your arguement) the fault is with the creator, not the userbase or potiental userbase.
Miles is a good example. He did everything wrong *grin* but he had the biggest userbase, for a while, out of all the muds in the forums. He pushed the envolope to try to give something, I am not sure he even knew what that 'something' was but it was different enough from what people were used to with majormud, as a base, that they came to see it for themselves. He gave something for the time commitment required, something new to experience.
Can he do it again with a no scripting or limited scripting majormud? Doubtfull, the task is a larger one it is an asking players to go back and forget a usefull tool. Basicly Syntax is correct, mega allows majormud to keep going. To succeed in a scriptfree majormud with a large following someone like Miles would have to do so much work it is not going to be majormud anymore. They would be FAR FAR better off changing code base so as to have source code access for the amount of change it would require.
MegaMud does exist, why fight it? Create with all the tools people are used to in mind. Your argument seems as silly as arguing how much better all things would be if went back to a simpler life without cars, or even horses... Sure there was good but lets not forget all that was not quite so good, famine, plagues, deaths in the thousands from exposure etc..
Megamud is just the 'poor mans' script, it requires little skill or scripting experience. There is not a single mud, whatever the code base, that completely eliminates scripting, there are scripting on all worth playing, even where it is not the creators wish, Hell I had scripts 10yrs ago while playing that 'talked' to the imps so they would not delete my characters for scripting. Even a few female scripts that would auto flirt for favors and eq from the creators *smirk* only cheating if you get caught, the game is in the code, not mortal like rules beyond what a creator can make not possible through code. If it is possible in a created world it is fair game for play.
In every case where the scripter is successfull, they are the top people in the realm. It has been part of the game from the start... out wit, using the creators own "new" laws of physics, the mobs, other players, even the creators themselves where one can. Scripting, faster with key strokes in a hand played Pkill chase, better eq than the one you just killed... it is all the same... go with your skills and overcome to run with the top dogs. Fairness is both players drop at the same instant because balance in all things is perfect? Fuck that! You have no game...
Now you are going to argue further I really didn't answer your question right? I did but, the problem is you really do not want it answered *grin* You like to play by hand... so do it!!! No one is stopping you, you DO NOT have to use scripts or megamud, every mud works just as well without them, just for you. If the real argument is most others are "as good", or "better than you" (be you creator or player) because they do use them, you, not they, are the lazy one, you failed to expand in your role and 'one up them' like the "old days" to gain advantage even beyond the basic scripting.
Re: Brainstorm a New Mud? [Archive] - ForumsHQ
(bold text = quoted)
Yes, but very few that offer so much less over what was before. MajorMud games, even edited ones to be found in these forums, basicly are slightly adapted vers. of the same O L D game.
err, you're still kind of missing my point. I'm asking why people choose to play a script-based game (ie, MajorMud in general) over a "normal" game (one that's actually played by live human beings). To clarify: I am NOT comparing scripted majormud to non-scripted majormud. I'm comparing majormud to other, non-scripting games. I'm asking why people prefer a game based on scripting, which is decidedly not the norm for computer games, or even MUDs.
Sorry the "your part" thing was not ment towards you personally, but rather generally to builders that think along the lines you started to, for you to see.
Still not really following what you're saying, since again, I never advocated just modding majormud a lot and then lowering the exp tables. I'm a huge proponent of designing MUDs from scratch, as several others here can confirm :)
[b]I mainly come from those others muds you speak off, I coded on them for a long long time and you over simplify: for every successfull one that does draw and hold a userbase there are thousands that fold do to lack of interest.
That's quite a bit of an over-estimate... I'd put it at more like 1 in 20 are successful. The successful ones are the well-designed ones, or the innovative ones that do something new.
Basicly Syntax is correct, mega allows majormud to keep going.
And what I'm saying is, this is a really bad sign that doesn't bode well for the future of the game. We're at a situation now where you need a non-supported client to competitively play the game, and you need non-supported software to host the game -- not really a great combo. And (imho) scripting in general alienates the internet mudders... so that cuts out an infusion of new players.
Not trying to be a depressing pessimist, I'm just not sure how long the game can continue the way things are now...
There is not a single mud, whatever the code base, that completely eliminates scripting, there are scripting on all worth playing, even where it is not the creators wish,
I've been on quite a few where scripting was basically a non-event. Some take the approach of instantly deleting anyone caught scripting, and that usually works well to scare people out of it. Or, you can do it programmatically... scripts don't "look" like normal people, in terms of network traffic. It doesn't even remotely resemble a real person's typing.
Hell I had scripts 10yrs ago while playing that 'talked' to the imps so they would not delete my characters for scripting.
Sorry but I'm highly inclined to doubt this. Either you spent like an entire year coding this, or the implementors weren't very bright and didn't catch on to your script spouting out a lot of gibberish that didn't make a sensical conversation...
Now you are going to argue further I really didn't answer your question right?
Exactly, because you didn't :P I was asking why people choose a game based on scripting. I *wasn't* asking why people script in MajorMud. They're two entirely different questions.
You like to play by hand... so do it!!!
Hand-playing stock majormud bored me to tears so much that I haven't played in about 6 years now. It's impossible to compete with scripters, anyway, unless you want to devote like half your day to the game.
If the real argument is most others are "as good", or "better than you" (be you creator or player) because they do use them, you, not they, are the lazy one, you failed to expand in your role and 'one up them' like the "old days" to gain advantage even beyond the basic scripting.
I think the above paragraph really shows how completely off-topic your reply is from the question I was actually posing...
Yes, but very few that offer so much less over what was before. MajorMud games, even edited ones to be found in these forums, basicly are slightly adapted vers. of the same O L D game.
err, you're still kind of missing my point. I'm asking why people choose to play a script-based game (ie, MajorMud in general) over a "normal" game (one that's actually played by live human beings). To clarify: I am NOT comparing scripted majormud to non-scripted majormud. I'm comparing majormud to other, non-scripting games. I'm asking why people prefer a game based on scripting, which is decidedly not the norm for computer games, or even MUDs.
Sorry the "your part" thing was not ment towards you personally, but rather generally to builders that think along the lines you started to, for you to see.
Still not really following what you're saying, since again, I never advocated just modding majormud a lot and then lowering the exp tables. I'm a huge proponent of designing MUDs from scratch, as several others here can confirm :)
[b]I mainly come from those others muds you speak off, I coded on them for a long long time and you over simplify: for every successfull one that does draw and hold a userbase there are thousands that fold do to lack of interest.
That's quite a bit of an over-estimate... I'd put it at more like 1 in 20 are successful. The successful ones are the well-designed ones, or the innovative ones that do something new.
Basicly Syntax is correct, mega allows majormud to keep going.
And what I'm saying is, this is a really bad sign that doesn't bode well for the future of the game. We're at a situation now where you need a non-supported client to competitively play the game, and you need non-supported software to host the game -- not really a great combo. And (imho) scripting in general alienates the internet mudders... so that cuts out an infusion of new players.
Not trying to be a depressing pessimist, I'm just not sure how long the game can continue the way things are now...
There is not a single mud, whatever the code base, that completely eliminates scripting, there are scripting on all worth playing, even where it is not the creators wish,
I've been on quite a few where scripting was basically a non-event. Some take the approach of instantly deleting anyone caught scripting, and that usually works well to scare people out of it. Or, you can do it programmatically... scripts don't "look" like normal people, in terms of network traffic. It doesn't even remotely resemble a real person's typing.
Hell I had scripts 10yrs ago while playing that 'talked' to the imps so they would not delete my characters for scripting.
Sorry but I'm highly inclined to doubt this. Either you spent like an entire year coding this, or the implementors weren't very bright and didn't catch on to your script spouting out a lot of gibberish that didn't make a sensical conversation...
Now you are going to argue further I really didn't answer your question right?
Exactly, because you didn't :P I was asking why people choose a game based on scripting. I *wasn't* asking why people script in MajorMud. They're two entirely different questions.
You like to play by hand... so do it!!!
Hand-playing stock majormud bored me to tears so much that I haven't played in about 6 years now. It's impossible to compete with scripters, anyway, unless you want to devote like half your day to the game.
If the real argument is most others are "as good", or "better than you" (be you creator or player) because they do use them, you, not they, are the lazy one, you failed to expand in your role and 'one up them' like the "old days" to gain advantage even beyond the basic scripting.
I think the above paragraph really shows how completely off-topic your reply is from the question I was actually posing...
Re: Brainstorm a New Mud? [Archive] - ForumsHQ
>>>I'm asking why people choose to play a script-based game (ie, MajorMud in general) over a "normal" game (one that's actually played by live human beings).
They don't. Your either or statement is meaningless to the scripter, he/she can do both: script muds a. through y. While hand playing mud z. There is no longer need for the choice MajorMud or "normal""live" mud with scripting.
>>>I'd put it at more like 1 in 20 are successful.
*laugh* Far more than 1 in 20 are stock without ever seeing a coder or a single area changed. Surely that is not success to you? Such a userbase is 99% total newbie 1% maxed characters sticking arround only because they like helping newbies, with a huge charcter, however lame the actual game may be.
>>>And what I'm saying is, this is a really bad sign that doesn't bode well for the future of the game. We're at a situation now where you need a non-supported client to competitively play the game, and you need non-supported software to host the game -- not really a great combo. And (imho) scripting in general alienates the internet mudders... so that cuts out an infusion of new players.
>>>Not trying to be a depressing pessimist, I'm just not sure how long the game can continue the way things are now...
Judging by the fact that more than a few people are still willing to play and pay only on legit, reg., games... it will be arround longer than your favorite "normal" mud. There are a few things that majormud always had over other bases. People paying to play and the whole community that has arisen from these forums to created edited games, alone, attests to a VERY loyal and large following.
>>>I think the above paragraph really shows how completely off-topic your reply is from the question I was actually posing...
Well, you said it best "Hand-playing stock majormud bored me to tears so much that I haven't played in about 6 years now. It's impossible to compete with scripters, anyway, unless you want to devote like half your day to the game."
You have a different standard with Majormud or a game you can script on than you have of your favorite "normal" hand play mud. One the play is what is important to you, the other competeing (not just with your newbie like when starting, but against the top players) is more important. You struggle with a choice liking both competeing and having others to interact with. I just don't choose I play H&S mainly with script and where I want something else I play something more RP intencive at the same time where the interaction and conversation is far better than "can you help me make level 2 and give me 5 gold..." or "why would you kill me on this dystopia base pkill mud? I never did anything to you asshole! I quit!"
If scripting can take so much away, why am I happy multitasking, and you are struggling to understand rather than accepting you can have your cake and eat it too?
Why do people choose....? No one has, but you.
They don't. Your either or statement is meaningless to the scripter, he/she can do both: script muds a. through y. While hand playing mud z. There is no longer need for the choice MajorMud or "normal""live" mud with scripting.
>>>I'd put it at more like 1 in 20 are successful.
*laugh* Far more than 1 in 20 are stock without ever seeing a coder or a single area changed. Surely that is not success to you? Such a userbase is 99% total newbie 1% maxed characters sticking arround only because they like helping newbies, with a huge charcter, however lame the actual game may be.
>>>And what I'm saying is, this is a really bad sign that doesn't bode well for the future of the game. We're at a situation now where you need a non-supported client to competitively play the game, and you need non-supported software to host the game -- not really a great combo. And (imho) scripting in general alienates the internet mudders... so that cuts out an infusion of new players.
>>>Not trying to be a depressing pessimist, I'm just not sure how long the game can continue the way things are now...
Judging by the fact that more than a few people are still willing to play and pay only on legit, reg., games... it will be arround longer than your favorite "normal" mud. There are a few things that majormud always had over other bases. People paying to play and the whole community that has arisen from these forums to created edited games, alone, attests to a VERY loyal and large following.
>>>I think the above paragraph really shows how completely off-topic your reply is from the question I was actually posing...
Well, you said it best "Hand-playing stock majormud bored me to tears so much that I haven't played in about 6 years now. It's impossible to compete with scripters, anyway, unless you want to devote like half your day to the game."
You have a different standard with Majormud or a game you can script on than you have of your favorite "normal" hand play mud. One the play is what is important to you, the other competeing (not just with your newbie like when starting, but against the top players) is more important. You struggle with a choice liking both competeing and having others to interact with. I just don't choose I play H&S mainly with script and where I want something else I play something more RP intencive at the same time where the interaction and conversation is far better than "can you help me make level 2 and give me 5 gold..." or "why would you kill me on this dystopia base pkill mud? I never did anything to you asshole! I quit!"
If scripting can take so much away, why am I happy multitasking, and you are struggling to understand rather than accepting you can have your cake and eat it too?
Why do people choose....? No one has, but you.
Re: Brainstorm a New Mud? [Archive] - ForumsHQ
why dont you people use [quote] tags ...
Re: Brainstorm a New Mud? [Archive] - ForumsHQ
They don't. Your either or statement is meaningless to the scripter, he/she can do both: script muds a. through y. While hand playing mud z. There is no longer need for the choice MajorMud or "normal""live" mud with scripting.
They CAN do both, but the vast majority DON'T. Most MajorMud players do NOT also play by-hand internet muds. A majority of majormud players won't even touch any MUD that MegaMud won't work in. THAT'S what I'm griping about.
It's great that you also play internet muds while you script majormud... but most majormudders simply do NOT do this!
>>>I'd put it at more like 1 in 20 are successful.
*laugh* Far more than 1 in 20 are stock without ever seeing a coder or a single area changed. Surely that is not success to you? Such a userbase is 99% total newbie 1% maxed characters sticking arround only because they like helping newbies, with a huge charcter, however lame the actual game may be.
Huh? You said 1 in 1000 are successful. I replied that the success rate is better, around 1 in 20 are successful.
You then replied that far more than 1 in 20 are stock. But that doesn't make any sense. From what I said, 19 in 20 are failures, so yes far more than 1 in 20 are stock. But your reply makes no sense whatsoever in response to my statement, please try again...
Judging by the fact that more than a few people are still willing to play and pay only on legit, reg., games...
The number of pay boards, and number of people ON the pay boards, has been dropping yearly... as have the rates that pay boards charge!
Well, you said it best
Quote:
"Hand-playing stock majormud bored me to tears so much that I haven't played in about 6 years now. It's impossible to compete with scripters, anyway, unless you want to devote like half your day to the game."
You have a different standard with Majormud or a game you can script on than you have of your favorite "normal" hand play mud.
That is highly doubtful, considering I don't have a "favorite normal hand play mud", nor have I played ANY mud in several years. Quit making assumptions about me already!
One the play is what is important to you, the other competeing
Yes indeed, and what is your point? Fun gameplay and competition are the two cornerstones of just about every on-line multiplayer game!
If scripting can take so much away, why am I happy multitasking,
Multitasking is fine. My beef is with the players that refuse to ever play a non-script game, which sadly comprises a very large percentage of the majormud player base. I'm trying to understand why THEY make that choice, why anyone would exclusively prefer a game that they don't even play themself. So far I have yet to get an answer to that question.
Why do people choose....? No one has, but you.
Most MajorMud players DO choose, and they choose only scripting muds. If you think otherwise, sorry but you're completely delusional!
They CAN do both, but the vast majority DON'T. Most MajorMud players do NOT also play by-hand internet muds. A majority of majormud players won't even touch any MUD that MegaMud won't work in. THAT'S what I'm griping about.
It's great that you also play internet muds while you script majormud... but most majormudders simply do NOT do this!
>>>I'd put it at more like 1 in 20 are successful.
*laugh* Far more than 1 in 20 are stock without ever seeing a coder or a single area changed. Surely that is not success to you? Such a userbase is 99% total newbie 1% maxed characters sticking arround only because they like helping newbies, with a huge charcter, however lame the actual game may be.
Huh? You said 1 in 1000 are successful. I replied that the success rate is better, around 1 in 20 are successful.
You then replied that far more than 1 in 20 are stock. But that doesn't make any sense. From what I said, 19 in 20 are failures, so yes far more than 1 in 20 are stock. But your reply makes no sense whatsoever in response to my statement, please try again...
Judging by the fact that more than a few people are still willing to play and pay only on legit, reg., games...
The number of pay boards, and number of people ON the pay boards, has been dropping yearly... as have the rates that pay boards charge!
Well, you said it best
Quote:
"Hand-playing stock majormud bored me to tears so much that I haven't played in about 6 years now. It's impossible to compete with scripters, anyway, unless you want to devote like half your day to the game."
You have a different standard with Majormud or a game you can script on than you have of your favorite "normal" hand play mud.
That is highly doubtful, considering I don't have a "favorite normal hand play mud", nor have I played ANY mud in several years. Quit making assumptions about me already!
One the play is what is important to you, the other competeing
Yes indeed, and what is your point? Fun gameplay and competition are the two cornerstones of just about every on-line multiplayer game!
If scripting can take so much away, why am I happy multitasking,
Multitasking is fine. My beef is with the players that refuse to ever play a non-script game, which sadly comprises a very large percentage of the majormud player base. I'm trying to understand why THEY make that choice, why anyone would exclusively prefer a game that they don't even play themself. So far I have yet to get an answer to that question.
Why do people choose....? No one has, but you.
Most MajorMud players DO choose, and they choose only scripting muds. If you think otherwise, sorry but you're completely delusional!
Re: Brainstorm a New Mud? [Archive] - ForumsHQ
Why do people script? Because most people are megababies and never played when you had to play by hand or make your own telemate scripts. Also, people have jobs, classes, familys, spouses, mates, etc. In short, they have lives. So you can either A. log in, get from lvl 1-5, 5-8, or whatver, by just going around killing stuff hitting a rat, rest....1 min later...a rat...rest... ad infinitum, or B. let their script do it, then come in and go boss hunting.
I think the choice is obvious, and megamud gives you that choice that other muds don't.
Having an expansive world thats very detailed, but no monsters, won't attract majormud players. Many play by hand realms are mainly focused on rp elements. Thats fine, but if I want to read a story i'll buy a book from someone who can actually get published.
I think the choice is obvious, and megamud gives you that choice that other muds don't.
Having an expansive world thats very detailed, but no monsters, won't attract majormud players. Many play by hand realms are mainly focused on rp elements. Thats fine, but if I want to read a story i'll buy a book from someone who can actually get published.
Re: Brainstorm a New Mud? [Archive] - ForumsHQ
Why do people script? Because most people are megababies and never played when you had to play by hand or make your own telemate scripts.
That's still not the question I'm asking.
What I want to know is, why do most majormud scripters refuse to play other, non-scripting muds (NOT non-scripting majormud, but *other* muds, whether they're internet muds, or other BBS muds)
Also, people have jobs, classes, familys, spouses, mates, etc. In short, they have lives. So you can either A. log in, get from lvl 1-5, 5-8, or whatver, by just going around killing stuff hitting a rat, rest....1 min later...a rat...rest... ad infinitum, or B. let their script do it, then come in and go boss hunting.
Yes, but why don't they chose to play *completely different games*, ones which are actually FUN to play by hand, and allow you to only play for 30 min/day to 2 hr/day and still be competetive...
I think the choice is obvious, and megamud gives you that choice that other muds don't.
1. In MajorMud it isn't even a CHOICE though... if you don't script, you'll never see a huge chunk of the game, even if you play by hand for 10 hrs a day for several years, you'll never hit level 50+...
2. Other muds don't give you this choice b/c they don't NEED to, you can get through the game at a normal pace, like just about *any other videogame in existence anywhere*. Games are supposed to be fun to play! That's why you don't see people creating robots that can play online Halo for them...
Having an expansive world thats very detailed, but no monsters, won't attract majormud players. Many play by hand realms are mainly focused on rp elements. Thats fine, but if I want to read a story i'll buy a book from someone who can actually get published.
I'm not putting any emphasis on RP-based games. IMHO, rp based muds suck. I'm still talking about hack-and-slash muds. There are hundreds of successful, non-scripting, hack-and-slash muds.
That's still not the question I'm asking.
What I want to know is, why do most majormud scripters refuse to play other, non-scripting muds (NOT non-scripting majormud, but *other* muds, whether they're internet muds, or other BBS muds)
Also, people have jobs, classes, familys, spouses, mates, etc. In short, they have lives. So you can either A. log in, get from lvl 1-5, 5-8, or whatver, by just going around killing stuff hitting a rat, rest....1 min later...a rat...rest... ad infinitum, or B. let their script do it, then come in and go boss hunting.
Yes, but why don't they chose to play *completely different games*, ones which are actually FUN to play by hand, and allow you to only play for 30 min/day to 2 hr/day and still be competetive...
I think the choice is obvious, and megamud gives you that choice that other muds don't.
1. In MajorMud it isn't even a CHOICE though... if you don't script, you'll never see a huge chunk of the game, even if you play by hand for 10 hrs a day for several years, you'll never hit level 50+...
2. Other muds don't give you this choice b/c they don't NEED to, you can get through the game at a normal pace, like just about *any other videogame in existence anywhere*. Games are supposed to be fun to play! That's why you don't see people creating robots that can play online Halo for them...
Having an expansive world thats very detailed, but no monsters, won't attract majormud players. Many play by hand realms are mainly focused on rp elements. Thats fine, but if I want to read a story i'll buy a book from someone who can actually get published.
I'm not putting any emphasis on RP-based games. IMHO, rp based muds suck. I'm still talking about hack-and-slash muds. There are hundreds of successful, non-scripting, hack-and-slash muds.
Re: Brainstorm a New Mud? [Archive] - ForumsHQ
Wow, so it all boils down from designing a MUD to debating about scripting and other MUD's, sheesh you damn thread hijackers. :offtopic:
Re: Brainstorm a New Mud? [Archive] - ForumsHQ
Wow, so it all boils down from designing a MUD to debating about scripting and other MUD's, sheesh you damn thread hijackers. :offtopic:
Point taken. This has moved from a somewhat usefull debate on scripting vs nonscripting relating to majormud to only explaining something someone has no interest in having the answer to, because it then would require accepting "scripters are mudders too". A long held no no in "Normal Mud" circles and partial reason for never accepting majormud as a "real mud" environment in general.
================================================== =====================
As for the original topic:
I would like to see a mud that didn't focus as much on several new and different forms of magics, and countless different classes, but rather picked a hand full and better tried to specialize them.
Witchhunter types for example that own a caster even 20-30 levels higher with mana draining weapons (some darts drain mana fast now with magic that takes time to wear off). Every class should have much larger advantages over some other class. A mage for example while basicly worthless toe to toe against a witchhunter would own warriors 20-30 levels higher as the warrior could not resist damage spells etc...
As most games are now, no raceclass combo is very far behind in exp/hr where at or near the same level no matter what mob is being scripted. Race/class combos do have importance, but not to the degree that level has importance. I would like to see game pit classes against eachother more. Witchhunter types should feed on magic users almost exclusivly thier entire existance because it is far more profitable to do so. Pkill would even have more interest where a mage rapes a band of 5 warriors without much effort, but then thinks "oh shit this last guy is a witchhunter, time to run before he joins this fight!"
I never much cared for muds that tried to "balance" they seemed to all balance by level and a caster type and a witchhunter type, for example, should not be able to stand toe to toe just because they are close to the same level. Balance should be more about "yes I can rape you without effort, but you can smack down that mage just as bad, and that mage can tear me apart!" Your race/class combo is NOT balanced with mine, but over all the game its self is very balanced, every combo has great strength, and great weakness.
Anyway, rather than more magic users, more bsers, more tanks etc... I would like to see fewer, but all mean something again and every available class have a even greater value within the game. Take at least one of each class on those big boss runs, you will need them all! The witchhunter to stop the casting, a bser and a warrior to cut away those hitpts as part of the mages effectiveness with damage spells is resisted even though shields are a god send, a priest to heal etc.. Even with fewer classes than stock (base fighting styles without hybreds) it would make the game tons more fun in my opinion. A warrior should rape a witchhunter (with lower melee than stock), but be fully dependent on him for any "magic resistance" at all, having to ask the witchhunter to stop a mob from casting where the warrior hopes to kill such a mob for exp, quest, or eq needed.
Point taken. This has moved from a somewhat usefull debate on scripting vs nonscripting relating to majormud to only explaining something someone has no interest in having the answer to, because it then would require accepting "scripters are mudders too". A long held no no in "Normal Mud" circles and partial reason for never accepting majormud as a "real mud" environment in general.
================================================== =====================
As for the original topic:
I would like to see a mud that didn't focus as much on several new and different forms of magics, and countless different classes, but rather picked a hand full and better tried to specialize them.
Witchhunter types for example that own a caster even 20-30 levels higher with mana draining weapons (some darts drain mana fast now with magic that takes time to wear off). Every class should have much larger advantages over some other class. A mage for example while basicly worthless toe to toe against a witchhunter would own warriors 20-30 levels higher as the warrior could not resist damage spells etc...
As most games are now, no raceclass combo is very far behind in exp/hr where at or near the same level no matter what mob is being scripted. Race/class combos do have importance, but not to the degree that level has importance. I would like to see game pit classes against eachother more. Witchhunter types should feed on magic users almost exclusivly thier entire existance because it is far more profitable to do so. Pkill would even have more interest where a mage rapes a band of 5 warriors without much effort, but then thinks "oh shit this last guy is a witchhunter, time to run before he joins this fight!"
I never much cared for muds that tried to "balance" they seemed to all balance by level and a caster type and a witchhunter type, for example, should not be able to stand toe to toe just because they are close to the same level. Balance should be more about "yes I can rape you without effort, but you can smack down that mage just as bad, and that mage can tear me apart!" Your race/class combo is NOT balanced with mine, but over all the game its self is very balanced, every combo has great strength, and great weakness.
Anyway, rather than more magic users, more bsers, more tanks etc... I would like to see fewer, but all mean something again and every available class have a even greater value within the game. Take at least one of each class on those big boss runs, you will need them all! The witchhunter to stop the casting, a bser and a warrior to cut away those hitpts as part of the mages effectiveness with damage spells is resisted even though shields are a god send, a priest to heal etc.. Even with fewer classes than stock (base fighting styles without hybreds) it would make the game tons more fun in my opinion. A warrior should rape a witchhunter (with lower melee than stock), but be fully dependent on him for any "magic resistance" at all, having to ask the witchhunter to stop a mob from casting where the warrior hopes to kill such a mob for exp, quest, or eq needed.