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Would this be better:

Priest-1, Silk, C-3, hp: 9-11, Staff, CStealth, Dodge +20, Crits +5 punch +1, kick +1, Jumpkick +1, Bash, hitmagic +5

TCA



Heh. It's a mystic with less spells, less class items to enhance it's combat, and lower combat.



:bowdown:



Atleast it can mahe itself... sometimes.



:cross:



But that's just my take on things, and as many people will tell you, I know nothing about mud and my opinion is shit. Just ask Miles!



-Drago

No...Oracles/Monks were supposed to be Mystic/Priest and Mystic/Mage crosses...thats why their stats aren't quite as powerful as either (mage/priests power being simply their magic)



Take a look at mystic and mage..



Mystic is Combat-3, Staff, Kai, punch kick jumpkick, crits +10 dodge +25 hitmagic 5..robes

Mage is combat-1, staff, mage-3, robes



So an oracle came out Combat-3 (because combat-2 sucks too much, or they probably would be), staff, punch/kick/jumpkick, crits +5, dodge +20 (which I think is too much), hitmagic 5, mage-2..



you take their base classes, mix them, and lower the end results a little..and you get an oracle. If something is mixed with a mag-2 class, it'll probably be either mag-1 or suffer somewhere else..if they were supposed to be mixed with gypsy/missionary, dont you think they'd look slightly more like a missy/gypsy? They're crossed with mage/priest man..not gypsy/missy...



I made the class for morbid that long ass time ago..I'm the one who invented it...I should know.

No...Oracles/Monks were supposed to be Mystic/Priest and Mystic/Mage crosses...thats why their stats aren't quite as powerful as either (mage/priests power being simply their magic)



You take their base classes, mix them, and lower the end results a little..and you get an oracle. If something is mixed with a mag-2 class, it'll probably be either mag-1 or suffer somewhere else..if they were supposed to be mixed with gypsy/missionary, dont you think they'd look slightly more like a missy/gypsy? They're crossed with mage/priest man..not gypsy/missy...



I made the class for morbid that long ass time ago..I'm the one who invented it...I should know.



Don't be so trivial I only said those classes because they were magic-2 classes and its not like I said crossed with a bard.



Mystics on morbid have:

HP 9-11, C-3, Kai-1, silk, staff, Bash, cstealth, Dodge +30, Crits +15, "Pu, Ki, Ju +2", hitmagic +5



Oracles and Monks currently have on morbid:

HP 9-11, C-3, pri-2 or mag-2, silk, staff, Bash, cstealth, Dodge +20, Crits +5, "Pu, Ki, Ju +1", hitmagic +5



Now lets look at mage and priest on morbid:

Priest:

Hp 4-6, C-1, Pri-3, Silk, Blunt, bash

Mage:

Hp 4-6, C-1, mag-3, Silk, Staff, Bash



So lets see if you are crossing them with mages and priests and you want them to be magic-2 these are the problems with the current Monks and Oracles:



Their hp is to high, should really be 7-9 per level

Their combat is to high, should really be C-2

Their Dodge is to high, should really be +15

Their Crits is to low, should really be +7



Since you don't want combat-2 you have to change something else to balance them out this means lower their magic or lower their other skills.



Here are some possible more balanced Monks and Oracles. If you want a cross look at version 1-4, if you want a mystic magic substitute look at version 5.



Ver 1: "Fixed balanced version between mystic/mage or priest"

HP 7-9, C-2, pri-2 or mag-2, silk, staff, Bash, Cstealth, Dodge +15, Crits +7, "Pu, Ki, Ju +1", Hitmagic +5



Ver 2: "Lowered magic version with C-3"

HP 7-9, C-3, Pri-1 or Mag-1, silk, staff, Bash, Cstealth, Dodge +15, Crits +7, "Pu, Ki, Ju +1", Hitmagic +5



Ver 3 : "C-3 version with lowered skills and Magic-2"

HP 7-9, C-3, Pri-2 or Mag-2, Silk, Staff, Bash, Cstealth, Dodge +10, Crits +2, "Pu, Ki, Ju +1", Hitmagic +5



Ver 4: "C-3 version minus all Crits and some Dodge"

HP 7-9, C-3, Pri-2 or Mag-2, Silk, Staff, Bash, Cstealth, Dodge +13, "Pu, Ki, Ju +1", Hitmagic +5



Ver 5: "A magic substituded mystic mage/priest"

HP 9-11, C-3, Mag-1, Pri-1, silk, staff, Bash, cstealth, Dodge +30, Crits +15, "Pu, Ki, Ju +2", hitmagic +5



What do you think is the best balanced version?



TCA

on second thought, i agree. after thinking about some more i gave warlocks scalemail, made them any sharp, and lowered both cleric and warlock to a 100% table. the combat 3 vs combat 4 for warlock vs mageknight is a big difference that i forgot about.



Would you mind editing your first post and putting in second revision class and race charts?



BTW- Thanks for asking us our opinions on these changes.



TCA

In all actuallity, they should not have bash...unless that affects them bashing doors which I don't think it does? But could be wrong..if it doesnt, theres absolutely no reason they should have bash..I'd go as far as to say it's pointless.



Originally, they were +15 dodge, +7 crits, combat-3, magic-2...combat 2 MIGHT work, seeing as how these types of classes generally run light or none on ENC, and would eventually max out roughly the same...hell, i've seen a PRIEST built for combat kill everything but a paladin in average round...on a board full of people who KNOW what they were doing..(yes its possible, don't question it please...priests are flat-lethal)...but being at combat-2, they'd have to be watched just in case..because it could just kill their worth as well.

In all actuallity, they should not have bash...unless that affects them bashing doors which I don't think it does? But could be wrong..if it doesnt, theres absolutely no reason they should have bash..I'd go as far as to say it's pointless.



Originally, they were +15 dodge, +7 crits, combat-3, magic-2...combat 2 MIGHT work, seeing as how these types of classes generally run light or none on ENC, and would eventually max out roughly the same...(snip) but being at combat-2, they'd have to be watched just in case..because it could just kill their worth as well.



I don't know if bash effects bashing doors but since it only works with empty hands or with a weapon so them having bash isn't a big deal as most high level staffs that they get do about half as much damage as other weapons. Most people if they have jump kick will use that instead of bash since you can't crit when you bash.



If combat 2 becomes an issue "i.e. kills their value as a class" maybe some power quests for them could be put in one for each of their attacks so they could get punch +2 kick +2 jumpkick +2.



Just to make sure what version you think is the most balanced as far as the skills and powers of the other classes? Personaly I like version 5 because it look the most like a mystic and not a cross but thats just me.



Note on version 5: If the power of Kai-1 vs magic-1 isn't equal then maybe some of the magic-1 spells casting difficulties needs to be altered. or the exp table could be changed a little to reflect this.



TCA

Ver 1: "Fixed balanced version between mystic/mage or priest"

HP 7-9, C-2, pri-2 or mag-2, silk, staff, Bash, Cstealth, Dodge +15, Crits +7, "Pu, Ki, Ju +1", Hitmagic +5



Ver 2: "Lowered magic version with C-3"

HP 7-9, C-3, Pri-1 or Mag-1, silk, staff, Bash, Cstealth, Dodge +15, Crits +7, "Pu, Ki, Ju +1", Hitmagic +5



Ver 3 : "C-3 version with lowered skills and Magic-2"

HP 7-9, C-3, Pri-2 or Mag-2, Silk, Staff, Bash, Cstealth, Dodge +10, Crits +2, "Pu, Ki, Ju +1", Hitmagic +5



Ver 4: "C-3 version minus all Crits and some Dodge"

HP 7-9, C-3, Pri-2 or Mag-2, Silk, Staff, Bash, Cstealth, Dodge +13, "Pu, Ki, Ju +1", Hitmagic +5



Ver 5: "A magic substituded mystic mage/priest"

HP 9-11, C-3, Mag-1, Pri-1, silk, staff, Bash, cstealth, Dodge +30, Crits +15, "Pu, Ki, Ju +2", hitmagic +5



What do you think is the best balanced version?



TCA





Honestly, there's not a question of which is balanced in there.. they're all balanced in a fashion... the question is which one best fills the class they're trying to build. Do they want it more combat oriented or spell oriented? I think the goal is for it to be able to do decent combat (unarmed) damage while using alright spells from a different... faith, if you will.

You can't tell me that a mage-2 class with the same stats as a mystic would be at all capable of replacing all the spells you'd lose.. all of the class-restricted items you wouldn't be able to use...

And while a priest-2 could heal better than any mystic..... they don't get the damage stuff at all.



In all when you're making and comparing races/classes you need to take a lot more in mind than just the stats of the thing you're working on... you also have to know what the spells and abilities associated with it do and how it will affect the dynamics of the game.



Honestly they should probably be, given what I understand the class to be:

HP:7-9, C:3, P/M:3, Silk, Staff, CStealth, Dodge +10, Crits +5, Pu/Ki/Ju +1, HitMagic +5



-Drago

not mag-3...but nod..



I think they're COMPLETELY fine as is personally..they're very popular classes, and mystics still out-do them..



Magic-1 cant compare to kai..and lower casting difficulties wont help the least bit..I mean, not the LEAST bit, it will be completely unnoticable. They were meant to be mag-2 and combat 3...they should probably have a little higher exp chart than a mystic..Monks at least, simply because of their healing capabilities..they do suffer a lot in damage though, so maybe the healing makes up for it.

I think they're COMPLETELY fine as is personally..they're very popular classes, and mystics still out-do them..





Powerful classes are often popular.

Lets not forget that mystics got boosted to +2 PU,KI, and JU as well as boosted +5 to both crits and dodge. So comparing the power of Monks and Oracles to Mystic is not even close to the problem. It was the other magic-2 classes that were grossly overpowered by them. Think about it 1-handed weapons vs jump kick. Its really difficult to break 300 damage with an one-handed weapon with out +crits or massive +maxdmg items yet Monks and Oracles do it at ease with jump kick.



You obviously do not see the problem as they may look fine in the chart but they either are overpowered or the other magic-2 classes and bards are underpowered at the moment. Take a look at them and then tell me you don't see a problem.



look at:



Missionary vs Monk

Gypsie vs Oracle

Bards vs Oracle and or Monk



TCA

missies and gypsies always have and always will suck horribly...honestly, how often do you see ANYONE play a gypsy? I maybe see 1 a realm, and they normally roll before they hit level 30...comparing any classes worth to a gypsy is an insane comparison.



All that means is, those classes need help. My suggestion? Make them 'Tenchu' like..they can have similar stats to a monk/oracle, but no pu/kick/ju and 1h weapons...whether they crit for 300 or not isn't the point. That can all be changed with new weapons or max damage...and missies should be able to crit for 300+ with darkbane, with enough +max damage or with a race with decent enough STR. Theres 100 ways to look at this...the fact is, you're still trying to butcher what the class was meant to be in the first place=P



Why do you want to kill perfectly good classes, instead of improve completely useless ones? That's beyond me...try looking at improving the missy/gypsy/bard instead of killing the monk and oracle. Another thing - people who pick missy and gypsy do so knowing their limitation in weapons and damage..you're forgetting that they also get traps, picklocks, and a much higher BS than mystic-types..all of which carry their own weight in value.