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Originally posted by Hobo_Bill





Go read the old testament again, homie, cuz you're wrong there as well, as far as I've read. According to Jews, believing Jesus was the son of God is wrong, but that has nothing to do with the bible.





Hilaarrrriouuusss. You're actually completely wrong. The Old Testament says that as soon as the messiah comes, the world will enter the messianic age and everything will be perfect. It also has verses about it being a sin to believe in a false messiah. Therefore, **based on the old testament**, Jesus can't be the messiah (since the world certinaly is far from perfect) and that if you believe in Jesus, you're believing in a false messiah.



My point is simply that the bible is full of contradicitions, and should not be taken literally.



btw, Why would you think that Jewish beliefs are random and have "nothing to do with the bible"? So far it sounds like you're ignorant with respect to homosexuals AND jews! :P

I just find it funny how he said this just a month after the Supreme Court passed all those same-sex laws..

You're pretty ridiculous if you're gonna read what I said and take that from it, or read the bible and believe what you just said yourself. Jesus was never called, nor do I believe him to be, the messiah. He was *the son of god*, a messenger, *NOT* the messiah, and I don't think anyone here has said that. That's what's hilarious. I believe in Jesus, that he was what I just said above. And I just re-read my post, and I didn't say anything about jewish beliefs being random. Jews don't read the bible, therefore their beliefs have nothing to do with this argument. I'd suggest you read people's posts completely before you talk out your ass, bro. I'm not a homosexual, so I don't have personal experience, and I'm not a jew, so again, no personal experience. I was raised strict SDA, rebelled, changed to all kinds of religions, and since then I have my own beliefs. But during all this, I read and re-read the bible, and yes, there is alot you can't take literally. Like the verse in Genesis or Exodus that says "The sons of God came to the earth and lay with the daughters of man".. From this you might think that angels came down and fucked humans, no? So yes, there are alot of things you can't take at face value, but that's not the discussion. Your "point" is valid. And re-read the part about Jesus coming, cuz there's nothing in there that says when he comes that the world will be perfect. In fact, it says that when he comes *again* (ie. the second coming) that the world will be bathed in flame and reborn, after thousands of years of torment for those not chosen to be with him. If I'm wrong, pull out your bible and prove it, but it sounds to me like someone told you wrong, or *you* misread it. No offense intended in this post, but when I'm confronted like I was, I rise to the challenge.

Evan, are you a jew? Just curous, because your whole schpiel about believing in Jesus being a sin is a very jewish belief, not biblical whatsoever...

I'm wondering how a man that is so rooted in his christian beliefs can believe in one of the greatest sins. I'm referring to the death penalty. Thou shalt not kill. It's plainly stated and pretty direct. However, he thinks that a woman and a woman being together (and men with men) is a far greater sin. It's hypocritical and unchristian at best to believe half of the bible. I dislike what he's doing because of this reason: If people can find happiness in this life with another person, who the hell is anyone to squat on that? They should have the right to be married since marriage is only a government contract in the eyes of the government. The founders sought to build a nation of tolerance, but we're far from that and probably never will be. Screw all this religious mumbo jumbo, it's place is in the palaces of gold being taught by the false prophets, not on Capitol Hill.

I'll agree with you there, my issue isn't with whether or not homosexuals should be allowed to marry, cuz frankly I don't give a damn. Let them get married, maybe it'll lessen the occurence of AIDS and other std's in the homosexual community if they have 1 partner that they are "married" to. Hell, they have "life partners" anyhow, so why not take it the full step and let them be legal? My issue was with the bible reportedly saying that it was ok, cuz that's bogus. Bush is a fucking moron, always has been always will be, and like Davis, should be run out of office by 16 men in dead president masks wielding giant pink jelly dongs.

Originally posted by Hobo_Bill

Jews don't read the bible, therefore their beliefs have nothing to do with this argument.



Jews don't read the bible? WTF are you talking about? The Old Testament (the FIRST FIVE BOOKS of the bible -- considered part of the bible by jews, christians, and muslims alike) has been the holy book for jews for several thousand years.



Originally posted by Hobo_Bill

Evan, are you a jew? Just curous, because your whole schpiel about believing in Jesus being a sin is a very jewish belief, not biblical whatsoever...



Nope. I am an atheist. I don't believe in Jesus, God, Allah, or any other diety. I place no value in the Old Testament, New Testament, or Koran; to me these books are all works of historical fiction.



Not biblical whatsoever? I've studied a good deal of religion, and I can confidently say that the posts I've made here are accurate if you follow the Old Testament in its pre-Christianity translations. I find it laughable that you consider the Old Testament to be "not biblical", when in fact it's the foundation and root of your christian bible. If you believe the old testament is not biblical, you really don't know much about your own religion at all, let alone anyone else's.



For the third time, my point with the Jesus thing is that the bible constantly contradicts itself in horrendous ways. If the bible tells you to condemn homos and but also tells you to love everyone, that's a big freakin contradiction right there.

Dude, you are, for the 3rd time, putting words in my mouth that I never said. As I said before, make sure you know what you're talking about before you try to contradict someone. I didn't say anything about the old testament not being biblical, not even close. How can it not be biblical when it's more the bible than the new testament? And I gave you your point on the bible contradicting itself, it does, quite often, that wasn't the discussion, AGAIN. I am mistaken about one thing, Jews do read the old testament, but their holy book is the Torah, not the old testament as you so adamantly claim. I have no religion, besides my own, and I know plenty about that. You didn't press the Messiah issue, so I guess you accepted your mistake there. And it's Quaran, tho Koran is also accepted.

Thanks for a stimulating discussion tho, really got my stoner brain working..

Originally posted by Hobo_Bill

I didn't say anything about the old testament not being biblical, not even close.



What? Your exact quote above was "your whole schpiel about believing in Jesus being a sin is a very jewish belief, not biblical whatsoever..." which is utter nonsense, because the passages that I'm talking about are in the Old Testament, hence they're biblical, yet you claimed they were "not even close" to being biblical!



I am mistaken about one thing, Jews do read the old testament, but their holy book is the Torah, not the old testament as you so adamantly claim.



Look, you REALLY need to read up on world religions if you want to have this discussion. The Torah *is* the Old Testament. They're two different terms for exactly the same thing. Google this if you don't believe me.



Don't yell at me for "adamantly claiming" things that are 100% true, yeesh!!!



You didn't press the Messiah issue, so I guess you accepted your mistake there.



I didn't press it, because you clearly don't know very much about the Old Testament and its history, which would be necessary background knowledge for the issue I was discussing.



IN ANY CASE -- this is all off topic -- all I was saying originally is that it's ignorant to say that homosexuality is wrong because the bible says so.