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MrBlack, if you believe in a god, how come you don't invest time in learning about Him? if you read the bible, you could see why God created earth, it was to glorify Him. it was His plan all the way through and it is by him that it will all end. the end times are near, according to the signs portrayed by the bible. a smart man once said, "if you take care of the small things, the big things will take care of themselves." why are we so interested in what's out there? i believe we won't be able to terraform another planet before we destroy this one, or it is destroyed by some means. so if we take care of whats around us, instead of looking at other stuff, we might prolong that which is destined to happen.

there are a lot of things that people can't know for sure. the dinosaurs, who lived on this earth for millions of years, were killed perhaps by a single meteor. but can we prove it? nope. can we prove black holes? nope, none have been seen because they bend light. the only way we can theorize that they exist is because of their gravitational force on a nearby object that could otherwise not be explained.

i suggest, instead of smokin weed and philosophizing about the universe, we look around us and do what needs to be done

Ok, and thats YOUR opinion http://mmb.forumshq.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink2.gif



Remember who wrote the bible before you quote it and take the entire thing for truth...man wrote the bible...the contents of the bible is controlled by the church (specifically the roman catholic).



Do you believe me when I say the world is round? How do you know its round and not flat? You look around, it looks flat...have you been to space and gone around the planet? for all way know, its a huge governemtn conspiracy!

But thats not the point...Don't take everything that the cvhurch or the bible sayes for truth...both are sources from man, and man is NOT perfect (at this stage in evolution that is)



Remember when it was a sin to eat meat on Friday? Then the pope decided it wasnt...It was a sin to work on Sundays, now its not...the church keeps changing the rules on us!



As for god creating us to glorify him...I don't believe so. God only knows love...love being the most powerful 'good' force...it makes sense to think taht he is nothing but love. And if that is so, logically, why would god need to be glorified? Why would we need to fear god if god is nothing but love?



The way that religion teaches us about god...that he is a fearful, wrathful god, makes no sense...it means that god is exactly like us, and he can't be, if he is a perferct loving being, then why would he be wratchful and punish us for exercising our free will?

who says god only knows love? in the old testament, god shows his wrath many times. god shows MANY qualities other than love.

yes, man did write the bible, but it was holy spirit inspired which means there are no lies in it. how could moses, who lived way after creation know what to write about creation? you'd say, "he made it up" i say "god told him what to write".

there is visible evidence that the earth is round. look at the earth's shadow on the moon, not just as we see it everyday, but also in lunar eclipses. you can see the earth's shadow moving across. is this something the government put up so we'd think it was round? seems like a lot of trouble for a not-so-important fact.

the church, is a human institution. we are not perfect, and some of it is corrupt. i believe the catholic church has a lot of problems. and that is because it is run by humans. i make no excuse for the church, it's messed up a lot. but at least it's trying man.

perfection is not just love. perfection is a perfect reaction to an imperfect action. if the imperfect action was something evil, it would make sense for the perfect reaction to punish.

with free will, we have it within our grasps to improve. that's why we're punished, so we will improve.

Ok, so under that same logic...I could write a bible and say god told me to write that...just because someone claims god talks to them and told them what to do and say does not alwayd mean they are telling the truth...I'm not saying god didn't tell these ppl what to write, i am sayign that some of it may not be totally from god, some may be their own input, their own beliefs, their own imagination...

Those times of wrath you mention god doing were not him on his own. Moses called upon god to do it, god didnt just do it, moses asked him to...because moses, like the christ, knew he had the power to command anything of the universe, jsut as any man woman or child does.

love is perfection...a perfect response to a perfect action is love...a perfect response to an imperfect action would also be the same...love...did jesus not preach this? do not punish another for their sins (if there is such a thing) but simply love the other.

Yet again on the free will....FREEWILL means we can do whatever we want!!! if we are punished for that, then its not FREE!!!! can you follow that logic? Free means something in return for nothing...but if you do something and the return is punishment...that isnt free....

god i'm late, but i'll try and answer this from what i know real quick

the bible logically flows. it is a story and every piece fits just right. most of it was written by different authors. i don't think that parts of the bible would have been added if they didn't flow with it and if they hadn't been told by god. i dunno, i guess you can say that, but i trust god on that issue. and that's why i see they all apply to me.

what about when moses was punished? did he ask god to punish him for striking the rock more than once and disbelieving? was it by his will that he wasn't allowed to cross the river jordan? moses was given power, and not on his own. it was from god because he was chosen to be the leader of the israelites. he could have done none of it on his own. he had no power but power to ask for miracles.

as for the old testament wrath, i'm not talking about god punishing the egyptians, god punished the israelites a lot, because they were evil at times.

jesus did preach love one another, turn the other cheek, you're right. but, when you're raising a child, you must make sure that he's on the right track. discipline is the way to do this. if the child does something wrong, you let him know that it was wrong, so that he/she might do right. i'm not talking about seeing a friend sin and beating him for it. i'm talking about a loving discipline from a father/child relationship. and to be perfect, you can't let that child go wild, you would want him to be perfect, and would make every effort to have him perfect.

free will does mean we can do what we want. but there are natural consequences. a person who has been having sex with every person they meet can't blame god when they get some STD's. it's a natural consequence for actions. if a person smokes everyday of his life, he could die of lung cancer. nowadays i don't believe we are punished for exercising our free will. i was speaking of the old testament when god punished the israelites for worshipping pagan gods and becoming evil

gosh i'd love to talk more, but i'm 40 minutes late for lunch, i only get a couple minutes to eat ;*(

free will does mean we can do what we want. but there are natural consequences. a person who has been having sex with every person they meet can't blame god when they get some STD's. it's a natural consequence for actions. if a person smokes everyday of his life, he could die of lung cancer. nowadays i don't believe we are punished for exercising our free will. i was speaking of the old testament when god punished the israelites for worshipping pagan gods and becoming evil



Ok...your right here..there are natural consequences...its not gods wrath...God never punished those 'evil pagans' for worshiping him in a different way than the israelites...it was the israelites that punished them, they were the ones that told the pagans that god would punish them if they didnt follow the israelites and worship god in their way.



Follow the history of religion and you'll see that all the saints of the current religions are based upon the gods of the pagan religions...this was originally done to make the transition from paganism to christianity or whatever religion.



Ok, I think I've talked enough in this thread for today...heh, let someone else talk for a bit..

MrBlack @ June 26 2002,00:38

As for this dying rock, I believe it is because of us that it is dying...

With or without us this planet is doomed to destruction. One way or the other. Either the orbit would decay and eventually destroy anything living or our sun will go supernova then dwarf which would also kill anything living here. We just speed up the process of it dieing by our overpopulation and waste.

Ray Dillyo @ June 26 2002,14:41

the bible logically flows. _it is a story and every piece fits just right. _most of it was written by different authors. _i don't think that parts of the bible would have been added if they didn't flow with it and if they hadn't been told by god. _i dunno, i guess you can say that, but i trust god on that issue. _and that's why i see they all apply to me. _



what about when moses was punished? _did he ask god to punish him for striking the rock more than once and disbelieving? _was it by his will that he wasn't allowed to cross the river jordan? _moses was given power, and not on his own. _it was from god because he was chosen to be the leader of the israelites. _he could have done none of it on his own. _he had no power but power to ask for miracles. _



as for the old testament wrath, i'm not talking about god punishing the egyptians, god punished the israelites a lot, because they were evil at times. _



jesus did preach love one another, turn the other cheek, you're right. _but, when you're raising a child, you must make sure that he's on the right track. _discipline is the way to do this. _if the child does something wrong, you let him know that it was wrong, so that he/she might do right. _i'm not talking about seeing a friend sin and beating him for it. _i'm talking about a loving discipline from a father/child relationship. _and to be perfect, you can't let that child go wild, you would want him to be perfect, and would make every effort to have him perfect. _



free will does mean we can do what we want. _but there are natural consequences. _a person who has been having sex with every person they meet can't blame god when they get some STD's. _it's a natural consequence for actions. _if a person smokes everyday of his life, he could die of lung cancer. _nowadays i don't believe we are punished for exercising our free will. _i was speaking of the old testament when god punished the israelites for worshipping pagan gods and becoming evil



gosh i'd love to talk more, but i'm 40 minutes late for lunch, i only get a couple minutes to eat ;*(

People need to be careful when it comes to religion. Religion based on the bible is just peoples interpretation of what it's saying. People tend to have a way of twisting the words around to mean what they want them to mean, or what they THINK they should mean. The same can be said for just about all religions.